Where does ICE fall in this paradigm?
Target practice.
It took me a moment to realize it was about AR as in AR-15 the gun and not augmented reality
If it comes to the point where the government is so bad that civilians have to fight against it, then the soldiers and police officers should join them.
Yea, so here’s the thing bud, those guys are there to protect the capital owners… Sorry. Pete’s right about their inclusion however not accepting if they fail to stand down then they should go too.
It also involves the fantasy that you and your freedom buddies will survive a serious encounter with US armed forces because you have camos and tactical boots.
Well, based on the average marksmanship displayed by most American shooters, those cops and soldiers can probably expect to go about their business with absolute safety.
The 2nd amendment LITERALY states it to use against the gov…
No it doesn’t. The role of the militias were to be called up to put down insurrection and slave revolts.
Ahem…
“A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.”
Where, exactly?
I know reading context isn’t easy for Americans so let me, a foreigner, explain it to you.
That document was written about 10 years after the Americans launched an armed insurrection against their government so they could pay less taxes and due to a grievance about parliamentary representation. In this context when they write about a well regulated Militia being necessary to the security of a “free State,” they actually imply that the security guarantee is against a tyrannical state of which they had recently been at war with. They understood that the free state (for white landlords) was precarious and could change so they believed that the hedge against that was local participatory militias. To note here is a “well regulated militia” in this era implies the adoption of military rank and file and internal regulations, not governmental imposed regulations on the existence of the militia or the weaponry itself.
I know reading is very hard. I hope with practice you may someday be able to read and understand context. It takes a lot of effort to become literate. Good luck on your journey.
Good explanation. Really no need for the insults though.
Ahem…
They kinda asked for it.
so they could pay less taxes and due to a grievance about parliamentary representation
They did primarily because they wanted to expand their settler colonies further into native lands while the British government had tried restricting settler expansion.
The “free state” was never about preventing oppression of the citizens or launching an insurrection against the state. I don’t know where this bizzare view comes from, since the constitution literally defines treason against the state to be punishable by death.
In this context when they write about a well regulated Militia being necessary to the security of a “free State,” they actually imply that the security guarantee is against a tyrannical state of which they had recently been at war with.
No, it doesn’t. Read Article 8, as it describes what the militia’s purpose is. At the time “the people” meant “the states”, as each state was to be secure in it’s own abilities and authorities to manage it’s militias. The purpose was to put down insurrections and slave revolts.
Remember, also, that to be “in the militia”, you were also reporting for regular muster and inspections. By the government.
Considering there are only 7 articles to the constitution I assume you mean Article 1 Section 8 which defines the ability of the federal government to call forth a militia but does not itself impose any substantive limits on the militias beyond that? Is that the article you are referring to? Maybe you should re-read it. Well regulated language is conceptually distinct from congress’s power defined in A1 § 8 to organize and discipline a militia once its activated. The text also imposes no federal prohibition on state or unorganized militias from setting membership or arms. If it isn’t prohibited by the language of the document, it is allowed.
Yes, sorry… the militia clause, as its known
The purpose of the militia is to put down insurrection, not to engage in it.
The word “regulated” has had only one actual meaning… the same as it means to regulate interstate commerce.
And only a couple of years later, the militia acts passed.
At the time “the people” meant “the states”
Please take a government class before continuing with your understanding of the Constitution
Please read why the 14th amendment extended the bill of rights to apply to people…
That’s not what the 14th amendment does
The 14th provides birthright citizenship, outlines that states won’t imprison people without due process, covers congressional proportionality, and makes insurrection/treason cause for not being eligible for office
Seriously, take a constitutionality class, you need it
I pray you actually read what people point you too:
No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law
Had a different ring to it in 2018
I’d love to see some reports of “gun toting Americans” blasting the shit out of ICE agents. The problem is ice agents and gun toting Americans are the same group.
We’re not all in the same group… I’m not an ICE agent, but I am a gun toting
Americanworking class person.I have noticed that ICE usually wants to conduct their splashy raids in areas with very low gun ownership, e.g., NYC, Boston, etc.
Their fantasy is specifically a David Koresh moment where the ATF and FBI come at them for fucking children.
Well, the gun would certainly improve my chances in the battle against fascist cops and soldiers. Political resistance is proving to be a failure. The Dems are already thinking that Kamala (proven failure) is our best chance against Trump 3.0 in 2028. No third-party will be viable by that date.
This is only a problem because Americans continue to support Democrats. Unfortunately, we need to be even more clear that their corrupt and ineffectual politics are no longer desired than we did in ‘24, because the bozos are pretending they didn’t get the message. The corporate Dems work tirelessly to enable disastrous Republican policies all the time, usually at the behest of their common donors - they should just stop the charade and switch parties.
In the meantime, there are efforts to get leftist 3rd parties off the ground. This Is our only hope to “vote” our way out of fascism, and yes, I’m aware it’s a minuscule chance of success. People typically don’t vote their way out of fascism, historically speaking.
political resistance includes strikes, protests and mutual aid. oh and also guns when (because its just a matter of when in the us) it comes time for it. libs are just doing it aimlessly, start listening to the socialists and you won’t even need to elect anyone to get shit done.
also its cute that some people think you are likely to see another election in 2028.
Waiting for people to wake up. At this point I am not sure they will.
To answer Pete Buttigeg:
That’s the point! We’re not Benjamin Netanyahu who enjoys targeting everyone but soldiers and police officers.
You know those Russian soldiers dropped their weapons during the October revolution.
If American soldoers are wise, they’d do the same.The “don’t step on me” people who talk about the right to bear arms often celebrate the police and the military
Well that sounds like more people need to bear arms.
Your terms are acceptable.
awesome, so no innocent people will get hurt
He’s right, you know. If you own an AR you shouldn’t slack on practice. Go to the gun range regularly. Train how to clean and maintain it. You may one day be facing people who are well trained.
At the end of the day it’s almost always tactics and physical readiness and not weapons systems. You can buy an apprentice the very best carpentry tools, but they aren’t going to turn out anything amazing unless they practice in repetition.
Exactly. Above all real world combat experience cannot be trained. Nobody can predict how you react when under fire, at least that was my impression in Charikar province, Afghanistan in ca. 2004. Knowing the basics will definitely be helpful though.
Yep, it’s a blend of instinct, experience, and preparedness. Only one of those is something you have any control over. Better max that one out.
Democrats will happily disarm everyone and hand the keys to the nation to the Republicans. The recent exhaltation of David Hogg in the party is proof. Not even January 6th 2021 will change their minds, they will never stop their anti gun crusade.
The justice system is not meant to protect us as we can all plainly see. We are on our own.
Yeah if dems dropped gun I expect more wins but you know dnc. They dont want guns cause they already keep trying to shoot its own limbs off as it is.
The DNC is bought and paid for by oligarchs. Almost all of the richest US billionaires lean Democrat. Musk is an anomaly, and look how he’s been targeted. I’m not saying it’s entirely unmerited.
So of course the oligarchs want the working class disarmed. And they don’t want populist candidates who want to improve people’s lives and cut into profits which is why the Democrats haven’t had a real primary in awhile.
The oligarchs also fund republicans hoping to control them the same way, but Trump got elected anyway. You might actually hate him 20% less if the bought corporate media hadn’t been weaponized against him. A lot of his positions were Democrat positions twenty years ago. Hillary had some crazy “deport the illegals” quotes back in the day.
Really wish I could say you are wrong but here we are.
Democrats will happily disarm everyone and hand the keys to the nation to the Republicans.
Even today when the Republicans are years-deep into proving that all the worst things we’ve ever suspected about them and their motives are true (and more) folks are still more worried D wants to come take their guns away.
R is literally dismantling our government and trampling the rights of an ever-growing segment of our population, on a speed run to authoritarianism, but folks are still yelling about that tired bogeyman instead of using the 2A as they have always claimed they can’t wait to do. (Edited to add: And I’m not even suggesting anything super dramatic. A few folks open carrying would probably be enough. You know, like all the magas that camped outside of polling places with their AR for purposes that were 100% not voter intimidation.)
You will scream about how Dems want your guns all the way up until the brownshirts show up to take them. The fuck is wrong with some of you?
For all those reasons you named, are exactly the reasons I don’t want Dems curtailing the right to keep and bear arms.
Notice ICE focusing on low gun ownership regions?
Nobody defended the Republicans, in fact the premise of the comment you are replying to is about how bad the Republicans are and how they need to be resisted.
How do you plan on resisting once you’ve been disarmed? Just vote out fascism? …Yeah that’s always worked.
The only reason you would want to be disarmed, is so that you have an excuse for your passivity.
Nobody defended the Republicans,
I didn’t suggest they did.
How do you plan on resisting once you’ve been disarmed? Just vote out fascism? …Yeah that’s always worked.
You seem to be arguing against a point I haven’t made.
The only reason you would want to be disarmed, is so that you have an excuse for your passivity.
You seem to be arguing against a point I haven’t made.
But you are really committed to fearing that decades old bogeyman more than the wolf at your door it seems.
There is no gap differences between the managerial class of the American empire, they are in solidarity against you.
That doesn’t change my point whatsoever, even if I agreed with your characterization of the parties, which I do not.
