thoughts, comments, concerns on systemd? was having a convo w someone that’s on mx linux & it piqued my interest.

  • namingthingsiseasy
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    23 hours ago

    I don’t like systemd mostly because it gives Red Hat too much power over the Linux ecosystem. For example, udev and logind used to be independent components that were eventually merged into systemd, and the onus was put on the community to maintain their independent derivatives (eudev and elogind). systemd’s original developer (Lennart Poettering) has been very open about his intention to make life difficult for anyone that doesn’t adopt systemd (source and original quote).

    To me, systemd is the Google Chrome of Linux - it tries to make life easier and does a good job of that, but it’s also explicitly designed in such a way to push out all competitors. So I avoid it at all costs and prefer other distros like Devuan, Void, Alpine, Gentoo and so on. That said, I don’t do enough to contribute back to those projects, so I wish I were more helpful about it than I actually am :-(

    Regardless, this doesn’t mean that you need to do the same thing. If you’re new to Linux, use whatever makes you happy and your life easiest! Practically none of the non-systemd distros are particularly easy to set up and use (Devuan may be an exception, but is likely the only one). And besides, a lot of this stuff is very old, and Poettering hasn’t even worked at Red Hat for multiple years now.

    But do keep in mind that systemd was a very political topic and still poses a threat to the Linux ecosystem - anyone could take over the project and leverage it to make life difficult for anyone that doesn’t want to do things the Red Hat way. And since many of the major distros have made it the only option at this point, they’ll have no choice but to be dragged along with it. Keep that in mind as you gain more experience with Linux and think about trying alternatives.

  • mholiv@lemmy.world
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    1 day ago

    If you are new to Linux I think it makes sense to use systemd. It’s the default for a reason. All major distros use it for a reason. It’s only a really small minority of very vocal people who are against it.

    If Debian and Fedora and Ubuntu and All the enterprise linuxes use the same thing, I think that says something.

    Despite claims to the contrary systemd is substantially faster and easier to use than its predecessor.

    It’s simpler and easier to use. Take a look at these examples. Service files are so so much easier to use and are much more robust than hundred line bash scripts.

    Systemd:

    [Unit]
    Description=OpenVPN tunnel for %i
    After=network-online.target
    Wants=network-online.target
    
    [Service]
    ExecStart=/usr/sbin/openvpn --config /etc/openvpn/%i.conf
    Restart=on-failure
    
    [Install]
    WantedBy=multi-user.target
    

    Sysvinit

    #!/bin/sh
    ### BEGIN INIT INFO
    # Provides:          openvpn
    # Required-Start:    $network $remote_fs
    # Required-Stop:     $network $remote_fs
    # Default-Start:     2 3 4 5
    # Default-Stop:      0 1 6
    # Short-Description: OpenVPN service
    # Description:       Start or stop OpenVPN tunnels.
    ### END INIT INFO
    
    DAEMON=/usr/sbin/openvpn
    CONFIG_DIR=/etc/openvpn
    PID_DIR=/run/openvpn
    DESC="OpenVPN service"
    NAME=openvpn
    
    . /lib/lsb/init-functions
    
    start() {
        log_daemon_msg "Starting $DESC"
    
        mkdir -p "$PID_DIR"
    
        for conf in "$CONFIG_DIR"/*.conf; do
            [ -e "$conf" ] || continue
            inst=$(basename "$conf" .conf)
            pidfile="$PID_DIR/$inst.pid"
    
            if start-stop-daemon --start --quiet --background \
                --pidfile "$pidfile" --make-pidfile \
                --exec "$DAEMON" -- --daemon ovpn-$inst --writepid "$pidfile" --config "$conf"; then
                log_progress_msg "$inst"
            else
                log_warning_msg "Failed to start $inst"
            fi
        done
        log_end_msg 0
    }
    
    stop() {
        log_daemon_msg "Stopping $DESC"
        for pid in "$PID_DIR"/*.pid; do
            [ -e "$pid" ] || continue
            inst=$(basename "$pid" .pid)
            if start-stop-daemon --stop --quiet --pidfile "$pid"; then
                rm -f "$pid"
                log_progress_msg "$inst"
            else
                log_warning_msg "Failed to stop $inst"
            fi
        done
        log_end_msg 0
    }
    
    status() {
        for conf in "$CONFIG_DIR"/*.conf; do
            [ -e "$conf" ] || continue
            inst=$(basename "$conf" .conf)
            pidfile="$PID_DIR/$inst.pid"
            if [ -e "$pidfile" ] && kill -0 "$(cat "$pidfile" 2>/dev/null)" 2>/dev/null; then
                echo "$inst is running (pid $(cat "$pidfile"))"
            else
                echo "$inst is not running"
            fi
        done
    }
    
    case "$1" in
        start) start ;;
        stop) stop ;;
        restart) stop; start ;;
        status) status ;;
        *) echo "Usage: $0 {start|stop|restart|status}"; exit 1 ;;
    esac
    
    exit 0
    
  • QuizzaciousOtter@lemm.ee
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    1 day ago

    I just want to say that I love systemd. Working with services and timers is just a pleasure. Handling dependencies is sooo much easier. This is just my opinion, but yeah, I can’t imagine dealing with SysV in 2025.

    • Deifyed@lemmy.ml
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      1 day ago

      This confuses me. I have a terrible experience each and every time I try to make a unit fine. To be fair, it’s often a long time between each time I do

      • RangerHere
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        20 hours ago

        I had similar issue. Every time I was writing a systemd file, I would have forgotten what I previously learned.

        These days I just make deepseek/changpt do it. 90% of the time they get it right. Even if they get it wrong, you end up with a file that will be perfect with a line or two changes.

        • Deifyed@lemmy.ml
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          18 hours ago

          Yeah probably easier now with AI. I just remember wishing it was more like the container orchestration tools

  • JackbyDev
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    1 day ago

    systemd is fine. Seriously. It shouldn’t be something you avoid unless you have some specific reasons.

  • MehBlah@lemmy.world
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    19 hours ago

    systemd is still a solution in search of a problem. I use it but sysV/init also works just fine.

  • ryokimball@infosec.pub
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    2 days ago

    The fight was fought, and systemd won. If you’re looking to learn theory then by all means look into the alternatives, but if you’re wanting to use what’s in most systems then go with systemd.

  • Omega@discuss.online
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    1 day ago

    Are you someone who just want to use your computer?

    Pick systemd

    Are you someone who likes to experiment?

    Then it won’t really matter

  • lnxtx (xe/xem/xyr)@feddit.nl
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    2 days ago

    After 12 years (me converting in 2013 to systemd on Arch BTW)
    I can say we finally have standardization between major distributions.
    OpenRC, SysV or Upstart…? How to do things…

    Real boot time improvement.
    Real multiple instances of the same service (service-name@xyz.sevice).
    Drop-in overrides. Builtin DNS cache, timesync, syslog, cron (kinda, timers have new syntax),
    cgroups, boot manager, network manager, containers, and more…

    Not a Unix or KISS philosophy, but come on, we need a fresh blood.
    There is no “next gen” kernel/operating system in the horizon.

    I have Devuan and PostmarketOS (Alpine with desktop environment),
    I feel like a caveman. Things which are easy to do in systemd, in OpenRC are not trival.
    OpenRC in Gentoo is not the same as in Devuan.

    Also, more and more software is systemd-centric.

    However.
    I encourage you to discover Linux without systemd first (extra layer of abstraction may be difficult during learning).

  • HayadSont@discuss.online
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    2 days ago

    If you’re still (relatively) new to Linux and are mostly interested in “just works”, then you simply can’t go wrong with systemd. It has (for better or worse) become the de facto standard on Linux and is therefore often assumed to be present. Hence, actively resisting it might be ‘costly’. Therefore, you should carefully consider whether it’s worth straying from the beaten path. Like, what do you hope to achieve?

    As for the elephant in the room, what alternative can even put up a fight? While I’d be the first to admit that systemd’s design ethos leaves a lot to be desired; it’s so feature-rich that I’ve yet to find any distro that puts good use to (almost) all of them. But, including everything and the kitchen sink does make it hard for its competitors to compete whenever it matters; perhaps it’s one of the key reasons why systemd is as reliable as it is OR why attempting to replace systemd on Fedora/NixOS/openSUSE is a nonstarter. (Being founded and funded by Red Hat doesn’t hurt either. Nor does it hurt when its main developer is on Microsoft’s payroll.)

    Though, even if I don’t see the likes of OpenRC/runit/sysvinit ever compete with systemd in terms of capabilities, I am cautiously optimistic for dinit and s6.

    LOL, who am I kidding, systemd will (probably) only be dethroned whenever its PipeWire/Wayland is introduced.

    • [R3D4CT3D]@midwest.socialOP
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      2 days ago

      this is great information! i’m relatively new, so it is nice to hear from users & not just documentation & what not.

  • GolfNovemberUniform@infosec.pub
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    1 day ago

    Systemd is objectively slow so I would prefer avoiding it when possible. I can’t do it myself though because I’m not very familiar with management of the alternative solutions.

          • GolfNovemberUniform@infosec.pub
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            5 hours ago

            That’s the same as if I said “Cyberpunk 2077 can offer 240 FPS in native 4K”. Sure, but only on a professional PC with many GPUs.

        • ArcaneSlime@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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          1 day ago

          Meanwhile my system (with the d) boots in less than 30sec. How fucking fast do you need it to be? Boot before you turn it on or something?

          • GolfNovemberUniform@infosec.pub
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            1 day ago

            In case you didn’t know, boot time also highly depends on the hardware. The worse the hardware is, the longer are boot times and the bigger is the difference between init systems.

            • ArcaneSlime@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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              1 day ago

              Well tbf I’m using a framework now, but on my last laptop, a 2014 toshiba satellite with an i5 and 4gb of ram, it still started up in less than 30sec. Last time I booted it was when the framework 16s shipped, so not that long ago. What, you running a pentium II with 8 megs of RAM or something?

              • GolfNovemberUniform@infosec.pub
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                21 hours ago

                I had 2 testing devices: one with 4 gb of RAM and one with 8 gb. None of them are as powerful as anything with an i5 but I think they’re decent enough.

                • ArcaneSlime@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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                  20 hours ago

                  Well alright, but that’s a case of decade+ old hardware that may need something lighter on resources depending on the processor. 4gb of ram is totally enough to boot systemd systems quickly, so the processor may be a bit of your bottleneck there. But that’s not exactly unexpected, for something like that you’d likely be looking for a lighter distro over one that is more current, like puppy, antix, slax, something meant for that application, it’s just a case of picking the correct tool for the job.