Though no-fault divorce was first legalized more than 50 years ago, it has long been sneered at in conservative circles, who see it as a danger to the sanctity of marriage and the concept of the American family.
Let’s leave aside the fact that all of that assumes a spouse who actually genuinely supports their working partner and doesn’t instead just live off their labor, which I think you may not realize happens more than you might think.
Raising kids and running a household isn’t easy, and nowhere in my comment did I say or even imply it was, so I’m not sure where you get off saying I don’t understand how marriage works. I understand that some couples decide to divide the labor of housekeeping and breadwinning such that one person has to sacrifice their career while the other sacrifices a significant degree of their relationship with their children (but I think you forgot to take that last part into account, if I’m being honest). It’s not ideal, but life is imperfect and we all make sacrifices to achieve our goals.
But what’s the equivalent of alimony for the breadwinner, hm? Do they get their time away from their family back in the event of a divorce? No, of course not. But money—that’s easy to transfer, right? And I’m not against it, not entirely. It makes sense. But only to a point. I don’t care how good a parent you are, your skills, time, and effort are not worth millions of dollars, and let’s not pretend the primary caregivers don’t also get things out of their choice that can’t be quantified in money, so it’s not even like they deserve to be paid in full for their work. These 50/50 laws have no limit, no cap on how much they allot to the homemaker/parent, and that doesn’t make any sense.
I agree the primary caregiver should get something; they do sacrifice, after all. But I don’t think an arbitrary 50/50 split is always justified. That’s all I’m saying. Are you seriously suggesting that such a rubric makes sense in all, let alone just most divorce scenarios? If you are, then I think you’re being even more daft than you’ve accused me of being. It always makes more sense to actually look at a situation and make your judgment based on the particulars rather than apply some context-blind rule.
First, I’m fifty. I have five kids. I know the sacrifices and demands on both partners very, very well. You aren’t dropping any knowledge here that doesn’t already go into my thinking. And yes, I still think 50/50 is fine. Perfect? No, but arbitrary rules never are and non-arbitrary rules always run into bias. How much money someone deserves becomes a question of who can hire the better lawyer, which isn’t a better system than 50/50.
Getting back time lost is a ridiculous suggestion. It can’t be done. Time with a fifteen year old is completely different from time with a four year old. So I don’t see any reason to try to litigate or compare to the impossible. My wife moved with me to DC and her mom died of cancer. Who’s giving her back time with her mom? There is no “fair.” Everyone lost opportunities to make other choices and none of that can be undone without a time machine.
It goes back again to the fact that I couldn’t decide to do it all without her and just pay for everything she gave me.
The only situation that I can identify with how you describe is military wives, and that’s a whole other fucked up thing. Yeah that for sure happens in the military, but god damn that’s a whole other shitstorm I could write five thousand words on.
I’m very concerned for you with what you’re saying here.
The narrative your creating equating 50/50 split in divorce to rape, ignoring any recognition that marriage is a relationship of equals, and believing that one spouse “sacrifices to achieve [their] goals” sounds like its describing some kind of victim complex.
But it’s been said by many others that this is the principal way in which women take advantage of men,
HUGE CITATION NEEDED here. Don’t be shy. Name the “many others”. My guess is your sources may also point to the cause you hold this male victim complex.
Are you unaware of the historical context where for a good chunk of modern human history, prior to 50-50 split, women were held in loveless and abusive marriages because if they left they would leave with nothing, and as traditional raisers of children they had few, if any marketable skills to earn a living if they were to divorce?
I’d rather see resources split equitably according to needs and what people deserve than a completely in-arbitrary split that’s sole purpose is to spare court time and resources.
50/50 split is literally the definition of the word “equitable” where each spouse is treated the same. What criteria is your “what people deserve” based on? Are you suggesting that if one spouse makes more money during the marriage then that spouse should take more money away in the divorce?
But what’s the equivalent of alimony for the breadwinner, hm?
You’re aware that alimony has nothing to do with 50/50 split of marital assets in divorce, yes?
I agree the primary caregiver should get something; they do sacrifice, after all.
How charitable of you. Whatever you think they should get, you don’t believe its half of the marriage assets apparently.
and let’s not pretend the primary caregivers don’t also get things out of their choice that can’t be quantified in money, so it’s not even like they deserve to be paid in full for their work.
A marriage isn’t supposed to be a transactional relationship. A divorce isn’t about rewarding one spouse or the other. Its an act of separating a pair of people that were sharing life and finances (and sometimes children) so they can go their separate ways. They build the marriage together and share everything. When they split they each take half and go on with their lives.
Let’s leave aside the fact that all of that assumes a spouse who actually genuinely supports their working partner and doesn’t instead just live off their labor, which I think you may not realize happens more than you might think.
Raising kids and running a household isn’t easy, and nowhere in my comment did I say or even imply it was, so I’m not sure where you get off saying I don’t understand how marriage works. I understand that some couples decide to divide the labor of housekeeping and breadwinning such that one person has to sacrifice their career while the other sacrifices a significant degree of their relationship with their children (but I think you forgot to take that last part into account, if I’m being honest). It’s not ideal, but life is imperfect and we all make sacrifices to achieve our goals.
But what’s the equivalent of alimony for the breadwinner, hm? Do they get their time away from their family back in the event of a divorce? No, of course not. But money—that’s easy to transfer, right? And I’m not against it, not entirely. It makes sense. But only to a point. I don’t care how good a parent you are, your skills, time, and effort are not worth millions of dollars, and let’s not pretend the primary caregivers don’t also get things out of their choice that can’t be quantified in money, so it’s not even like they deserve to be paid in full for their work. These 50/50 laws have no limit, no cap on how much they allot to the homemaker/parent, and that doesn’t make any sense.
I agree the primary caregiver should get something; they do sacrifice, after all. But I don’t think an arbitrary 50/50 split is always justified. That’s all I’m saying. Are you seriously suggesting that such a rubric makes sense in all, let alone just most divorce scenarios? If you are, then I think you’re being even more daft than you’ve accused me of being. It always makes more sense to actually look at a situation and make your judgment based on the particulars rather than apply some context-blind rule.
First, I’m fifty. I have five kids. I know the sacrifices and demands on both partners very, very well. You aren’t dropping any knowledge here that doesn’t already go into my thinking. And yes, I still think 50/50 is fine. Perfect? No, but arbitrary rules never are and non-arbitrary rules always run into bias. How much money someone deserves becomes a question of who can hire the better lawyer, which isn’t a better system than 50/50.
Getting back time lost is a ridiculous suggestion. It can’t be done. Time with a fifteen year old is completely different from time with a four year old. So I don’t see any reason to try to litigate or compare to the impossible. My wife moved with me to DC and her mom died of cancer. Who’s giving her back time with her mom? There is no “fair.” Everyone lost opportunities to make other choices and none of that can be undone without a time machine.
It goes back again to the fact that I couldn’t decide to do it all without her and just pay for everything she gave me.
The only situation that I can identify with how you describe is military wives, and that’s a whole other fucked up thing. Yeah that for sure happens in the military, but god damn that’s a whole other shitstorm I could write five thousand words on.
I’m very concerned for you with what you’re saying here.
The narrative your creating equating 50/50 split in divorce to rape, ignoring any recognition that marriage is a relationship of equals, and believing that one spouse “sacrifices to achieve [their] goals” sounds like its describing some kind of victim complex.
HUGE CITATION NEEDED here. Don’t be shy. Name the “many others”. My guess is your sources may also point to the cause you hold this male victim complex.
Are you unaware of the historical context where for a good chunk of modern human history, prior to 50-50 split, women were held in loveless and abusive marriages because if they left they would leave with nothing, and as traditional raisers of children they had few, if any marketable skills to earn a living if they were to divorce?
50/50 split is literally the definition of the word “equitable” where each spouse is treated the same. What criteria is your “what people deserve” based on? Are you suggesting that if one spouse makes more money during the marriage then that spouse should take more money away in the divorce?
You’re aware that alimony has nothing to do with 50/50 split of marital assets in divorce, yes?
How charitable of you. Whatever you think they should get, you don’t believe its half of the marriage assets apparently.
A marriage isn’t supposed to be a transactional relationship. A divorce isn’t about rewarding one spouse or the other. Its an act of separating a pair of people that were sharing life and finances (and sometimes children) so they can go their separate ways. They build the marriage together and share everything. When they split they each take half and go on with their lives.