The reason why Valve does all this cool shit is because it’s a private company and not publicly traded. It owes nothing to no one.
As soon as a company goes public, it owes its shareholders its profits and has an obligation to make as much as possible and use whatever means it can to do so.
Gabe doesn’t care. He does what he wants and he knows what his customers want.
This is super true in so many ways. I worked for a private company for several years and about 2 years ago they were bought out by a public company. Things changed real quick lol. The original owners swore they would never sell too. I til they did one day lol
Well, things change. With time I became more wary of people who claim they will “never” or “always” do something. It’s not a realistic thing most of the time
Yeah I’d never trust those people.
Definitely, though when they inevitably change their mind, it stings like an implied promise broken.
I hope my company does because I have shares
Such a deep meaning behind such simple comment 🌚
Don’t forget the part where they’re able to do that because they basically own the Windows market so pursuing projects that won’t see a RoI in the short term is possible for them but wouldn’t be for others.
Private companies have a fiduciary duty to their shareholders just the same as public ones. The big difference is that they tend to have far fewer shareholders and they usually all have some personal relationship. So it’s less likely to result in a lawsuit.
Gabe apparently owns 50.1% of Valve. I don’t know who owns the rest (I’m reading some places that he got divorced, so possibly his ex-wife?), but if they’re not happy with how it’s being run they could certainly sue. That being said it seems like a money making machine at the moment, so why would you.
Valve is not a publicly traded company though. They don’t really care if investors aren’t making the expected profits.
I mean, they care, but it’s all Gabe who decides in the end. If he doesn’t care as much then that’s the way it is.
“HE kNoWnS whAT CuStoMeRs WaNT”
No he doesn’t, people kept saying HL3 and there’s no HL3. The company committed crimes and illegal activities in many countries.
Stop the propaganda nonsense.
Those are quite the claims. Got any sources to back them up?
I put an admittedly low amount of effort into searching (skimmed a couple dozen links or so) for evidence of crimes and came up empty. I’d be curious to see trustworthy sources about this as well.
Re: HL3. It’s a particularly infamous example of a game cancelation, and it does suck but studios canceling games happens.
Edit: Excepting antitrust lawsuits. I wasn’t surprised to see that and glossed over it, but it does qualify as a crime and I would say is a reasonable accusation. I didn’t read more in to it than that, yet.
Edit 2: The TL;DR: of the antitrust lawsuit if you weren’t aware (I wasn’t) is that Steam is taking a cut of up to 30% which they’re arguing is excessive. Game makers don’t really have a choice given that Steam is the market leader. Here’s a random newer article, more about Gabe having to appear in court, but it covers the basics. https://www.techspot.com/news/100969-gabe-newell-ordered-testify-person-valve-antitrust-lawsuit.html
30% has been the industry standard rate for decades and unlike consoles or mobile, PC game developers have more choices than any other even down to self-selling. It’s such a nothing lawsuit.
This is one dev upset because their game they spent what felt like 50 years developing one of the first “big” Indie titles didn’t make them enough money.
While I won’t comment as to the validity of the lawsuit (that is for the courts):
- The “standard” for selling video games involved needing a publisher who could coordinate with manufacturers and distributors to fight to get your big box onto a Best Buy shelf. Steam is one of the biggest “disruptors” in history. They don’t get to make the “that is just how it always was” argument*
- PC Game developers very much do not have more choices. Because, with very few exceptions, the response to “we are selling this on our own store” or “we are selling this as a gog/humble/epic exclusive” is “Fuck you, wake me up when you are on steam”.
I don’t know enough of the math behind the Steam CDNs and services to know if it is worth the cut. But, much like I am always going to whinge at DLC prices even as I acknowledge that it is “a good deal”, I am also going to generally side with “devs deserve more money”.
*: Take this with a grain of salt since it is a large claim and there are obviously no citations. But Steam did not invent digital distribution and companies like Strategy First (?) existed. And their cut for the massively inflated game prices (80 USD in the early 2000s…) was a LOT higher than 30%. Ironically, Valve used the same “you get more money if you sell with us” argument.
I read that! About it being the industry standard. The background on the developer is news to me.
I guess the question is, is 30% too much? Just because it’s the standard doesn’t mean it isn’t too high. But I’m not knowledgeable in the financial side of the gaming industry nor do I know what valve’s overhead is like so I truly don’t know the answer.
Hl3 will come out if and when valve comes up with interesting new engine tech. The story of hl1 was the pitch the gravity gun and physics of source was the reason for hl2. If vr had seen mass adoption hl alyx would have been a Main line game or maybe include more post hl2 content.
Thanks! I’ll give it a read.
People don’t even know what people want. Gabe knows people expect HL3 to be some godly game and he knows what they make will in all likelihood not live up to that image. Why bother if it will just bring disappointment to everyone? Just save the effort and enjoy the memes.
*and free publicity
What makes you think he doesn’t know people want HL3? Even you know, and you don’t strike me as the brightest bulb in the knife drawer.
regardless of Gabe knowing what people want, the point about being privately owned stands. it really is the publicly traded companies that are the problem. at least private ones aren’t legally obligated to pursue profits over all else. they have the choice to be evil. they may still make that choice, but public companies can be sued by their investors for being “charitable to customers” instead of maximizing profits.
I’ve heard that there’s been a marked “financialization” of corporations in the last decade or so. More and more companies make more money from leveraging/leasing/whatever rather than actually making a product and selling it to people.
As a private company, Valve gets to avoid this.
You’re not very good at this
Half-Life Alyx wasn’t good enough for you? Sheesh, go play ANY of the HL mods or many other new games released. Bad hill to die on…
I generally avoid liking any companies or brands, but it’s difficult to not appreciate some of the things Valve does.
They do things for their own benefit, but it benefits everyone because they don’t try and lock things down quite like other companies.
Agreed! They make it very difficult to dislike them. I suspect a time will come when they start losing touch, and I’ve always wondered how much of their general direction is associated with Gabe specifically.
Having seen some of the things Gabe has done, like personally delivering the first Steam Decks and constantly speaking at gaming conferences and doing panels, etc, I think a lot of it is him. I do worry about whether he has a succession plan in place.
I’ve heard that the company internally functions a lot like a co-op. That’s your succession plan right there. Mondragon lights the way.
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Well there was the whole dollarization for less wealthy countries that made them a no-fly-zone. A friend of mine was recently telling me about how he bought Deep Rock Galactic for 600 pesos and since the dollarization the same game now equates to 30 thousand pesos.
It hurts to do it because right now Valve is an amazing company, but I’ve started buying games where possible on GOG and archiving the installers for exactly this reason. If some horrific Valve-EA merger ever happens in the far future they won’t be able to hold all of my library hostage
Yeah, they’ve got a monopoly and it sucks, but they don’t seem to have a desire to push it to the point of drawing attention. I know why Epic does what it does, because they have to compete with the near complete market dominance of Valve. However, it’s not like Valve has used their position to increase prices or anything like that. They also invest in doing things that improve the experience rather than just trying to harm the competition.
I don’t like the monopoly, but I do appreciate Valve as a company.
I keep seeing “Monopoly” repeated, but I’m having a hard time understanding the logic.
They haven’t bought competitors. They don’t do anything to hinder others progress in this market, sometime to the detriment of their customers (see: Steam launches another launcher, to launch the game). They haven’t openly shown anything anti-competitive, in fact they have stuck to their guns (30% cut) when others have attempted to compete.
What they have done is cultivate the best platform that continues to evolve, add features, and maintain stability. Consumers continue to choose to use Steam overwhelmingly, but outside of Valve’s own games, there is no threat of exclusivity or punishment.
It’s the opposite of monopolistic behavior. Any company is free to compete, build their own platform, and offer software. It’s expensive, and tricky to get right, but nothing is stopping them, Valve included.
A monopoly doesn’t care about actions. There’s only one place people think about when they think to purchase a game on PC. That means it’s a monopoly. Sure, it’s not a horrible situation, and they don’t seem to be significantly exploiting their position, but that doesn’t change that they have no real competition.
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For launchers there’s Epic, GoG, Ubisoft, EA, Microsoft Gamepass, R*. If we’re talking game sales there’s a litany of other websites to purchase games from Humble Bundle, Fanatical, Itch.io, Green Man Gaming.
Players can buy directly from the publisher in most cases. For outside those, there are options of DRM free or whatever Epic supposedly has to offer.
Steam may have a dominant position, but I’m not entirely sure that’s a monopoly. If we had no other options? Sure. We have multiple other options. Steam Keys are the most common for a number of the sites, but I’d also consider that none of these launchers have the set of features that Valve offers with theirs.
Does people choosing a better service make it a monopoly? I think if Steam didn’t have even 1/3rd of what it offers then the other options would be more widely used. Rather, if the other options put as much effort into the quality of life of their launchers, they’d be more popular.
But personally I also think the Epic-backed Wolffire lawsuit claiming Valve has a monopoly is kind of BS, unless it comes out to be true that Steams market power forced developers to keep games off other stores and keep it on their own. If Valve were forcing its competitors to be shit, then sure it’s a monopoly.
Up to this point, it seems to me that Steam has dominated the market because of reliability. The consistent sales, refunds are consistent, the program has a number of uses from communities to guides to per-game control schemes, to little things like the soundtracks of games being in one spot.
Is it a monopoly? Or is it the people’s choice?
For launchers there’s Epic, GoG, Ubisoft, EA, Microsoft Gamepass, R*.
Sure, and the only time most people use these are launching through another platform that forces the launcher to run anyway.
If we’re talking game sales there’s a litany of other websites to purchase games from Humble Bundle, Fanatical, Itch.io, Green Man Gaming.
Humble Bundle, GMG, and I assume Fanatical all sell mostly Steam keys. They aren’t an alternative. Itch.io also does some, but they absolutely aren’t competition.
Players can buy directly from the publisher in most cases.
Still buying a Steam key 99.99% of the time, so Valve gets their cut.
Epic and GoG exist, but it hardly effects Valve.
Does people choosing a better service make it a monopoly? I think if Steam didn’t have even 1/3rd of what it offers then the other options would be more widely used. Rather, if the other options put as much effort into the quality of life of their launchers, they’d be more popular.
No, people choosing to use it doesn’t make it a monopoly. There being no real equal does. Also, yes, they have the best service. That’s true for most monopolies. It isn’t even necessarily out of malice. They just have the most money so can invest the most into creating the best service. The competition can’t keep up. Valve doesn’t need to harm the competition. They just need to be better than them, and they easily can always keep up with their investments.
A monopoly doesn’t require any actions to be taken to be a monopoly. It only requires that there isn’t an equal competitor. People can choose a monopoly. Their choice doesn’t matter for the definition.
I suppose lack of competition is the key here, my understanding has been that there is no competition because the reigning business buys out the competitors or uses their market power to keep others out. Not because other competitors exist and just happen to be worse (be it from youth or poor management).
With Epic’s attempt at making strides and with Gamepass being cross platform, I think it’s fair to say there is competition that exists but it’s being resisted by consumers because they are setting terrible precedents. Still, plenty of people use those services, and for the most part key selling sites do have other options available. If it’s a Humble pack, generally there is a Steam Key and the publisher key, or more recently an Epic Key.
Steam just has both its age and its value as a service that keeps it popular, but I guess I just don’t think that market dominance is a monopoly. You do raise valid points. I’m definitely not trying to be a Valve defender by any means either, they’re a big corp that is capable of pulling some bullshit, just that the definition of monopoly I learned has the distinction of leading market dominance with no competition due to anticompetitive practices - purchasing smaller competitors, larger corporate mergers. Not when a business is a market leader because other companies aren’t as good. But things change and it’s been a few years since I’ve been in the business side of things.
Valve doesn’t set prices on the store in the first place. They are giving more margin for big sellers now too.
More margin to big sellers seems sort of backwards to me, but I guess it makes it easier to convince large publishers to put games on steam? Personally I’m more interested in bigger margins for indies, but maybe I’m ignorant.
It’s just a shame the competition kinda sucks. Epic is pulling some good moves with all the free games and some really competitive prices but their launcher sucks and GoG have an abysmal launcher while rarely having newer titles because of so many companies holding tight to DRM
They mainly have a monopoly because everyone else’s attempt to compete sucks. I haven’t seen any launcher that has half the features or conveniences steam has. Most of them are slower too.
Steam offers actual value. Other launchers just feel like a lazy way to add drm.
Well, yeah. Steam has been around for a very long time and is the only real option. They have a ton of extra money to spend that a new competitor hard never expect to match. That’s what makes it bad. Yeah, it’s a great product, but what would we have if there was an actual competitor pushing them to be better? Would they take less of a cut or would they make Steam even better? Maybe they’d reduce prices of games for consumers even.
The fact of the matter is no one else really competes, so it’s a monopoly.
The hardest part is getting games on the platform, and epic and gog have already done that. Giving it features that steam has is just a matter of money and time, which other game companies definitely have.
I agree it’s a monopoly and I’d love to see a good competitor. But it’s different from something like at&t, where to even be a cell service provider you need a huge investment, time to build infrastructure, and government approval. All you need to make a good game launcher is a dev team, which is what these companies do all the time.
Ah yes, the monopoly, a business with competitors such as ea origin, Ubisoft dunno what they called it, epic store, gog. The word monopoly must break down like monopol-y as in like a monopole, a magnet with only one polarity that is separate from the other polarity.
The fact you can’t even name the Ubisoft service shows it’s isn’t really competition. It exists, but it doesn’t compete. Sure, you can choose to go somewhere else to purchase some games, but none of then threaten Steam.
The Ubisoft one is just particularly shitty. The only reason steam remains unthreatened is because the rest of them have mentally crippled shareholders at the helm. If steam ever went that way or undermined customer ownership they would surely be fucked and everyone with a functioning brain would go GOG or sail the seas. It’s also not like they chose to or actively pursue being the only game store. The only limiting factor in using other game sources on the steam deck for example is the lack of interest from any other sale platform to support any degree of Linux. Open source devs have already replaced most if not all of their functionality with easily installable frontends. If one was really so deranged, even windows can be installed on the damn thing. I’ve at least never heard of any valve enforced steam exclusive titles, but vaguely recall some developer advertising something as only on steam.
The only way I feel one could justify calling steam a monopoly is to totally shit on the utter ineptitude of the competition so far as to dismiss their very existence, using it more as an insult to the competition than a descriptor for valve/steam, which is valid in a way but I don’t think it makes the terminology usage objectively true.
Even ignoring all that or if steam actually was a monopoly by my or anyone’s standards, I’m more concerned about the things that technically are not monopolies yet collude (even unintentionally which is unlikely) to fuck everyone over. Such as food industry globally, Canadian telecom, the current state of tv/movie streaming, etc.
Well they kind of have used their position to indirectly increase prices… If they take a 30% cut then the games need to sell for more to make the same profit (and there’s the geolock and anti price-competition thing too)
Yet they also allow developers to sell generated keys with 0% cut either directly or to key sites if they desire.
The only reason being that they loosely apply the agreement people sign with them, they still reserve the right to remove games from their store of they’re sold at a lower price elsewhere. They’re getting sued for that at the moment.
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I was going to say something to the effect of "I’m thrilled for what they’ve done for the state of gaming in Linux, even if it is in self interest, but I wish they’d contribute their code upstream. ".
I did a little search and turns out a lot of it is, so that’s cool. https://www.phoronix.com/news/Valve-Upstream-Everything-OSS
They do lockdown things.
On EU they tried to geolock customers.
Steam Deck works on selected Linux systems, Steam Deck operating systems isn’t open source after many people demand it to be released for the public.
Alyx is still VR only game and must buy VR game, unless you mod it. Valve refused to release PC version.
Exclusivity is the number one reason they are making money. You can not buy certain games outside of Steam and Valve hasn’t released their own games outside of Steam.
Valve isn’t the good guys and they are criminals with multiple history of lawsuits and abuse to their employees. You shouldn’t keep supporting them.
Most of these are either misinformed, straight misinformation or just weird nitpicks.
The steam deck works perfectly fine with windows and should also work just fine on any linux system. It is literally just a x64 PC in a hand held format. Nothing has been done to limit the devices functionality on systems that aren’t SteamOS.
AFAIK SteamOS 3 will be dropped in the future. Also afaik, development is currently focused specifically on the steam deck first so it’s not particularly useful outside of that.
Thing is though, there’s nothing stopping people from using any other distro other than the belief that SteamOS is some super special distro filled with gaming secret sauce. It’s just a fork of arch with deck specific tweaks. A lot of the work thats been put into SteamOS has also made its way to linux at large.
Alyx is built from the ground up to be a VR game. There really isn’t any way to convert it to a flatscreen game without completely doing away with what makes that game what it is. There’s no flatscreen version to release. Though something to mention is that SteamVR (and by extension alyx and any VR game on steam) supports all VR HMD’s provided they’re compatible with OpenVR.
The games that are exclusive to Steam, aside from valve’s own games, are there entirely by publisher/developer choice and are not enforced by valve. Unlike a certain other storefront that pays for timed exclusivity rights which is, ironically for them, a monopolistic move.
There are legitimate reasons to criticise valve, they’re not innocent by any means.
But the things I’ve pointed out really aren’t issues.
Also valve being criminals and being abusive to their employees are massive claims. Would be nice to see some proof of that. Not a fan of making up things to be angry about when there are legitimate issues that we can be angry about instead.
It’s not perfect fine, there’s always a problem like the virtual keyboard from Microsoft (not steam) has problems with the Deck. Linux side also doesn’t have perfect results with reports like starting a new clean state or running without additional background application. The Linux side doesn’t have less problems it has more.
You just did describe the limitations of Steam Deck, all 64x can’t support 32 bit programs and using something like CD to play 32 bit games will cause problems that otherwise isn’t a thing in Windows. Proton doesn’t support CD games which means you aren’t going to play games with CD requirements. Think about this next time instead of using your big mouth.
Someone has made a mod to play the game without VR, it’s Valve who refuses to accept the opportunity for better PC gaming for everyone.
Unfortunately after the EU lawsuit filed. We did learn about backdoor dealings and Valve with other companies do exclusively deals. You are only sourcing your statements from other people who said the exact words. You just messaged a propaganda outlet that is false since EU lawsuit. The court records state the publishers were in agreement to exclusive support for Valve Corporation. It’s unclear if Insomnia studios has a copy of Valve Corporation’s official contract agreement for exclusive content but we may learn more soon.
The proof of criminal activity is in the news. A simple google search will find the answers.
Valve stealing controllers patent from famous keyboard maker Corsair.
Valve guilty of not following AU law for customer refunds.
Valve guilty for EU geolock laws.
Valve guilty for violating the USA monopoly and will be investigated by the federal government.
Valve guilty for breaking French resell of digital games and must offer resell for digital games.
The list goes on and on. They are criminals and supporting criminals makes you a criminal.
It’s not perfect fine, there’s always a problem like the virtual keyboard from Microsoft (not steam) has problems with the Deck.
Like what issues? What is the problem with the OSK on Windows? How is this valve’s fault? I personally can’t find any issues regarding the OSK other than people not knowing how to open it. Some help would be nice to see where you’re coming from.
Linux side also doesn’t have perfect results with reports like starting a new clean state or running without additional background application. The Linux side doesn’t have less problems it has more.
Can you be more specific please? What distros are we talking about? Certain distros such as debian and ubuntu generally don’t ship with the bleeding edge of software updates. Mainly kernel updates. Which can lead to issues when running them on the latest hardware. One issue being audio, that was recently fixed with support being added to the kernel. Since it’s relatively recent it wouldn’t surprise me if it hadn’t reached the slower release cycle distros like Debian and Ubuntu. While it reaches bleeding edge distros like Arch. So again, be more specific. What issues. What additional programs are needed?
You just did describe the limitations of Steam Deck, all 64x can’t support 32 bit programs
Except 32-bit applications do run under linux and the steam deck. I know this both from personal experience and the fact it’s not to hard to check ProtonDB for 32-bit games and see that reports are given.
You do realise that x86-64 does have 32-bit support, right? Have you actually taken a look at the hardware that the deck has, by any chance?
But anyway, to make the point clearer:
https://www.pcgamingwiki.com/wiki/List_of_Windows_32-bit_games - This is what I’m using to determine if a game is 32 bit.
https://www.protondb.com/app/107100?device=steamDeck - Bastion, a 32 bit game, that I’ve been playing recently. Has positive reports for steam deck compatibility.
https://www.protondb.com/app/49520?device=steamDeck - Borderlands 2, same story.
https://www.protondb.com/app/108710?device=steamDeck - Alan Wake
https://www.protondb.com/app/242940?device=steamDeck - Anachronox
So either you have absolutely no idea what you’re talking about or you’re making this up.
and using something like CD to play 32 bit games will cause problems that otherwise isn’t a thing in Windows.
What problems? Again with the vague statements.
https://askubuntu.com/questions/1217896/can-i-play-an-old-cd-game-on-linux - Yes you can play CD games.
https://www.reddit.com/r/linux_gaming/comments/rg6wyp/can_linux_run_cd_rom_games_just_as_well_as_windows/ - Same answers across this thread
Thing is though, do you have any proof that this would be an issue that Valve has specifically caused this issue. How do you know that this isn’t a linux issue in general?
Unfortunately after the EU lawsuit filed. We did learn about backdoor dealings and Valve with other companies do exclusively deals.
I’m finding information about the geo blocking. But nothing about exclusivity deals. Got a source?
Valve stealing controllers patent from famous keyboard maker Corsair.
If this is the Steam Controller back buttons thing. This may be something to consider.
Valve guilty of not following AU law for customer refunds.
That’s fair enough.
Valve guilty for violating the USA monopoly and will be investigated by the federal government.
If this is the wolfire games thing. They haven’t yet been found guilty and the trial and investigation is still on going. We should probably wait for the results before jumping to conclusions.
Valve guilty for EU geolock laws.
Fair.
Valve guilty for breaking French resell of digital games and must offer resell for digital games.
Kind of have a hard time justifying this though. Yes, fair enough, they did break that law. But at the same time that law does seem rather shortsighted.
On one hand, yeah it’s good for the consumer to be able to resell stuff. On the other hand, it’s kind of hard to work out how a resale market for digital games would work. It’s not like physical games where there’s clear benefits and drawbacks to buying new vs used. Something like this would probably push publishers/developers hard into a solution that would get around this that would be worse for the consumer. How would you confirm that the “used” copy you’re buying isn’t linked to CC fraud, which is a common issue with key resellers like G2A. There’s plenty that doesn’t sit right, despite it initially sounding like a good thing.
But at the same time the ruling may have been to just prevent valve from adding the stipulating regarding reselling accounts and games. Rather than explicitly forcing them to set up a game reselling platform. Considering it’s been 2-3 years since and nothing major has been announced or changed regarding the ruling. It may have been that.
The list goes on and on. They are criminals and supporting criminals makes you a criminal.
Then everyone is a criminal. If you had to avoid any company that has had legal issues in the past then that would leave you with very little to choose from. Especially with tech.
What companies have you bought from in your lifetime? What about people in your family, or friends? I’d bet my cock and balls that you and/or your family/friends would be a criminal under that exact same reasoning you use.
So there’s my thought on that. If I’m a criminal for using steam, then arrest me I guess. I must be a rotten bastard criminal for having used/bought windows, GOG, Uplay, Battle.net, EA, Epic games, meta(through oculus), Apple, Amazon, Ebay, Google, Samsung, Nvidia, AMD, Intel… Need I go on?
All you talk about is defending the criminal after they were convicted of the crime. You are acting like those stupid trump supporters who don’t care about the criminal act. You don’t even dare to research the truth either, the controller lawsuit was under jury, AKA the people AMERICAN people voted Valve committed the crime of stealing patent.
The Europe Commission trial documents are open for the public to read.
During the AU lawsuit Valve was fined for trying to hide the truth about refunds. Valve lawyers fought to the highest court to not pay the millions.
Valve is not good in any case and will never consider you a loyal customer. You are a money bag to them.
Lastly, there’s hundreds of reports of Steam Deck or Proton unable to work. A simple github search from serious tickets to low problems are available for the public to read.
All you talk about is defending the criminal after they were convicted of the crime.
You ever heard of nuance? I’m beginning to think maybe you havent considering your wacky ass statements.
There is room to argue why a judgement may be Just/Unjust. The law upheld by people and people aren’t exactly perfect. So there’s room for debate.
You are acting like those stupid trump supporters who don’t care about the criminal act.
“You disagree with me therefore you are the worst thing I can possibly thing of.”
That’s such a genuinely stupid remark to make.
I do care about criminal charges but shit ain’t as black and white as you seem to think it is. Like you yourself said, these things are upheld by people and people are rarely ever perfect so I think there’s plenty of room to argue why you think a ruling may or may not be perfectly just/unjust.
The legal system has it’s flaws.
the controller lawsuit was under jury, AKA the people AMERICAN people voted Valve committed the crime of stealing patent.
Go look at that link I sent in regards to the Valve vs Ironburg case.
Specifically this
The verdict was reversed.
https://law.justia.com/cases/federal/appellate-courts/cafc/20-1315/20-1315-2021-08-17.html Here’s the full document.
See what I mean by decisions by people aren’t perfect and should never be 100% ride or die?
The Europe Commission trial documents are open for the public to read.
Send me the source then. Like I said, I’ve looked and I’ve only found information about the geoblocking and how Valve and a few other companies colluded on that.
If you can point me to some information on valve getting done for exclusivity stuff, that would be great.
During the AU lawsuit Valve was fined for trying to hide the truth about refunds. Valve lawyers fought to the highest court to not pay the millions.
I didn’t dispute this at all. Why are you reiterating on something I agreed with like I said anything different?
Valve is not good in any case and will never consider you a loyal customer. You are a money bag to them.
there’s hundreds of reports of Steam Deck or Proton unable to work.
There’s hundreds of reports of just about every device out there not working. It’s almost like you make something look really bad by being very vague with your statements.
It’s also really easy to do that when you refuse to look at positive reports and also the fact that people are generally less likely to make reports like “My steam deck is working alright” which creates a negativity bias.
It’s also really easy to do that when you completely ignore that Linux gaming is still in it’s early stages and far from perfect. This isn’t specifically a steam deck issue, this is just linux in general. It’s only in the last few years that Linux even started to become viable for gaming. Not to mention the fact that linux gaming is largely banking on a compatibility layer because it’s trying to run games built for a completely different operating system.
Do you actually know anything about linux/linux gaming at all? Everything you have spoken about regarding linux/linux gaming or the deck has been completely wrong. Again. either you have absolutely no idea what TF you’re going on about, or you’re lying through your ass.
You were wrong about the x64 thing. You were wrong about the CD thing. You were missing a lot of information when it came to running different OS’s on the deck. In fact you were really vague about the majority of that as well. Never gave anything specific. Just said there were problems and never elaborated on them. Why?
A simple github search from serious tickets to low problems are available for the public to read.
Ok, now go do that to any major Github/Gitlab project and realise that they all have a myriad of tickets of varying severity. But don’t forget to lose any of the nuance like you did here though.
It’s not like Linux Gaming is still in it’s VERY early stages and that the Steam Deck is primarily reliant on linux to do it’s job. Or that linux gaming is an incredibly complex task to handle given all the low level work that is put into compatibility. The vast, vast majority of games that run on linux are written for a completely different operating system and 100% rely on compatibility layers that capture their windows and graphics API calls and translates them to their closest linux and/or vulkan calls while also having the condition of having as little overhead as possible. And that’s only part of the problem.
Lets not forget though that you can make any situation look bad if you’re very vague with your statements, provide no reasoning, ignore all nuance and you compare them to literally nothing and just look at it in a vacuum.
Yes, the deck has issues. But have you seen the amount of work that valve has put in to improve things? There is active work put into the entire project. A lot of that work also makes it’s way to linux at large as well since a lot of the issues are just to do with the infancy of Linux gaming.
I mean there must be a baller ass reason why the deck is the most successful handheld on the market if it’s got all these problems that are as catastrophic as you seem to imply. People that aren’t the most hardcore shills generally have a hard time excusing things when their $300-$500 dollar hardware is shitting the bed as hard as you seem to want to imply.
People with working kits are far less likely to open tickets. “My device works well” isn’t useful to anyone, is it? No fucking wonder all you’re seeing is bug reports and tickets. You’re looking at the place that is specifically for people to post bug reports and tickets.
You don’t even dare to research the truth either
I’ve been open about my attempts to search about these things. I’ve also taken every opportunity to ask you for help in finding this information. I’ve also not commented on the things I couldn’t find any information about. I’ve backed up as many of my claims as I could. Wish the same could be said about you, who has been largely spouting objectively wrong information with no indication of research at all.
Oh come on the same news paper saying the lawyers are fixing the issue of evidence that should finalize the verdict. MAYBE READ.
You are just creating double standards as the truth of EU lawsuit is easy found but you don’t care. You looked into easy reporting of Valve case that defies them in better light. You didn’t cate about the fact or evidence. You only want yourself to believe Valve is the good guy.
This is a common misconception in trump supporters that only viewing small companies that benefit from good content.
Source on
Steam Deck works on selected Linux systems, Steam Deck operating systems isn’t open source after many people demand it to be released for the public.
?
In reading this article https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2022/02/linux-on-steam-deck-what-you-need-to-know-what-currently-works/ the only limitation that stuck out is you’re supposed to install your distro on a different partition.
Alyx is still VR only game and must buy VR game, unless you mod it. Valve refused to release PC version.
It’s a matter of opinion if this is good or bad I guess, but I think VR specific titles are a good thing. More of an opportunity to take advantage of the medium rather than shoehorn the functionality on to a desktop game.
Any body who tries to install any other operating system knows it’s going to cause problems. We aren’t talking about the popular Linux like Ubuntu, Mint or Debian. The really small Linux community like pop, Qubes, CentOS. They don’t work because Steam Deck doesn’t support them. It’s why Steam Deck should be open source to allow people fix the problems Valve refuses to solve.
From what I’ve read (this reddit link, basically https://www.reddit.com/r/SteamDeck/comments/15qfpfh/has_anyone_installed_a_different_version_of_linux/) the big issue with other distos, it sounds like to me, is a lack of driver support in older kernels. Which isn’t a distro specific problem. The other is device specific optimizations, which I agree Valve should share if they haven’t already.
Also, you specifically called out CentOS in your distro list. I don’t know if that was arbitrary or you have a specific vested interest in it, but CentOS is discontinued and will soon reach EOL (https://www.redhat.com/en/topics/linux/centos-linux-eol). Please don’t attempt to use it.
You can just ask for the source code, if anyone can get the source code if they get the binary and can modify and redistribute it, its free, as is steam os
PC gaming on Microsoft Window’s is Xbox gaming. It’s baked into the OS and we’re a generation away from MS charging is you want a “secure” OS.
Linux + Valve means PC gaming won’t be behind a paywall anytime soon.
“Linux” already charges for a “secure” OS. RHEL is the quintessential example and Canonical have their enterprise oriented Ubuntu variant. And smaller orgs have other offerings. Likely, we would see the same happen with windows… and already sort of do with the professional versus home SKUs that nobody understands.
PC gaming is highly unlikely to be “behind a paywall” basically ever because there is too much money in it. But, speculation, Valve’s increasingly strong push toward Linux is a mix of three things
- Concerns over Microsoft actually making inroads on PC with gamepass. That thing was such a good deal that it made people tolerate GFWL…
- An attempt to find “the next big thing”. Steam/Digital Distribution was “the next big thing” in the early 2000s and led to coming on twenty years of Valve being one of the biggest players in the industry. Subscription models have “disrupted” that but are fundamentally unsustainable. But what about making a handheld that “just works” (… and doesn’t have super sketchy potentially spyware requirements). Same with making “the everything platform” similar to what they tried with Steam Machines a decade or so ago.
- General dick measuring between GabeN and management at MS
I like Valve and love Steam. But it is important to remember that they are “a company” first and foremost.
There’s nothing in RHEL or enterprise Ubuntu that’s inherently more secure than any other distro.
I am more familiar with RHEL than Ubuntu (I still can’t grok what the hell they advertise when you try to update home ubuntu…). But you are generally paying for a more curated selection of packages in the default repositories as well as active support for the more “bleeding edge” stuff.
Which DOES provide “security”. Both in the sense of having more vetted third party packages (rather than do your own research on which solution to use, you use the one that the people you threw money at decided on for you) but also in response time. Because if someone manages to sneak malware into a popular package, you don’t just have people on call to roll that back and implement mitigations/recoveries immediately. They are also on call to call you to say “Yo, gimp is gonna shove bitcoin mining goatse into every single picture you make. We suggest you do the following…” at 2 am.
Let’s be honest, you’re paying for enterprise support. It ticks the squares in your report and makes management happy - and there’s nothing wrong with it as that will save your ass sometimes too.
You’d get the same experience with any rhel clone otherwise (old centos, rocky) or even completely another distro like debian.
I’ll be honest I’m not that familiar with Ubuntu either. I do have pretty extensive experience with RHEL (though mostly through CentOS back when it was effectively a RHEL clone) and even more with Debian (upon which Ubuntu is based).
you are generally paying for a more curated selection of packages in the default repositories
You seem to be implying that having fewer packages in the default repos somehow increase security. I don’t buy that. Packages that are not installed on the base system are fully optional (and even some that are, if you’re willing to do some cleanup!). Not having them installed doesn’t decrease your attack vectors. Having them in the repos means they’re going through the distro’s security process, patching, etc.
Should the user choose to install that piece of software (otherwise it doesn’t matter), that process should mean increased security vs. the alternative - installing those packages either from upstream or from a third-party. Either solution may have on-par security practices with the distro’s but more likely have worse. Furthermore, upgrades could become more perilous for essentially 2 reasons:
- It’s difficult to update (you’ll need to track upstream, verify if it has CVEs, etc and manually update vs.
apt upgradeor similar). - The CVE fix you need may only exist in a major version above the one you’re running, which could mean a lot more work on upgrading, breakages, outages, etc. - compare that with Debian
stableor Ubuntu LTS where security fixes keep coming for years.
having more vetted third party packages
Surely the mass of independent security researchers are more likely to find and file CVEs than the limited staff at Red Hat who probably have better things to worry about. On top of that, whatever CVEs RH do find, they will likely submit to the CVE database so it doesn’t matter.
They are also on call to call you to say “Yo, gimp is gonna shove bitcoin mining goatse into every single picture you make. We suggest you do the following…” at 2 am.
That sounds like a nightmare scenario (almost literally!). Please don’t wake me up we’re bleeding money, reputation or potential revenue. Everything else can wait until next morning. My sleep can’t.
Not having a package installed DOES decrease your potential attack vectors. But it is more about decreasing the burden of picking a solution. For example, let’s say you are setting up a kubernetes install and need to pick an ingress controller. You can read through the documentation and maybe even check various message boards to figure out which are good options. But you need to sift through the FUD and often end up at the point of needing an expert to make an informed decision.
Or you can rely on the company you are paying to have already done that and likely have already contracted this out to an expert to figure out which solutions are well maintained and have solid update policies.
Because, getting back to a CVE: Some software has a policy of backporting security fixes to the current LTS (or even a few of the previous ones). Others will just tell you to upgrade to the latest version… which can be a huge problem if you were holding on 3.9 until 4.x became stable enough to support the massive API changes. A “properly” curated package repository not only prioritizes the former but does so at every level so that you don’t find out you were dependent on some random piece of software by a kid who decided he is going to delete everything and fuck over half the internet (good times).
And yes, you can go a long way by reading the bulletins by the various security researchers. But that is increasingly a full time job that requires a very specialized background.
Given infinite money and infinite time? Sure, hire your own team of specialists in every capacity you need. Given the reality, you look for a “secure”/“enterprise” OS where you can outsource that and pay a fraction of the price.
As for the 2 am wake up call: If you have global customers then “wait until next morning” might mean a full work day where they are completely vulnerable and getting hammered and deciding that every single loss is your fault because you couldn’t maintain a piece of software. Or if you have sensitive enough customers/data where a sufficiently bad breach is the company itself (and an investigation to see who is at fault).
Which all gets back down to why this is a non-issue for consumers. Enterprise OSes already exist and are not some evil scheme MS are working toward. And the vast majority of even companies don’t need them (but really should run them and consider paying for the support package on top…). So there is absolutely zero reason that the “home” version would ever be locked away behind one.
This is what you get when you pay.
Security backports to old versions of software that have fallen out of support.Or, you know… you can get it for free with Debian, which circles back to my initial argument.
- It’s difficult to update (you’ll need to track upstream, verify if it has CVEs, etc and manually update vs.
This is the best summary I could come up with:
A talk this week at the Linux Foundation Europe’s Open-Source Summit highlighted some of the great and ongoing contributions by Valve and their partners.
FFmpeg is widely-used throughout many industries for video transcoding and in today’s many-core world this is a terrific improvement for this key open-source project.
This tool for interacting with the Intelligent Platform Management Interface (IPMI) is extremely common with server administrators while now its development is in a temporary state of limbo due to GitHub.
This Rust-based version of cp, mv, and other core utilities is reaching closer to parity with the widely-used GNU upstream and becoming capable of taking on more real-world uses.
The Maintainer Of The NVIDIA Open-Source “Nouveau” Linux Kernel Driver Resigns Hours after posting a large patch series for enabling the Nouveau kernel driver to use NVIDIA’s GSP for improving the support for RTX 20/30 series hardware and finally enabling accelerated graphics support on RTX 40 “Ada Lovelace” GPUs, the Red Hat maintainer has resigned from his duties.
Rocky Linux Shares How They May Continue To Obtain The RHEL Source Code Following Red Hat’s decision earlier this month to limit access to the Red Hat Enterprise Linux source code and that leading to downstreams scrambling to figure out their paths forward to avoid tracking CentOS Stream instead and still aiming to offer 1:1 RHEL compatibility without being restricted by the Red Hat Customer Portal, the Rocky Linux distribution today expressed a few of the ideas they are considering.
The original article contains 1,112 words, the summary contains 246 words. Saved 78%. I’m a bot and I’m open source!
Yaaaas Valve!
