- cross-posted to:
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- cross-posted to:
- [email protected]
- [email protected]
- linux
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Of course Linux is better for custom, purpose-built hardware. That’s like, its main advantage for the commercial sector.
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Now we just need that GFX software from intel / amd / nvidia that is available on windows, taking advantage of that newly supported hardware
Stop, you’re making me too hard. I might be able to like, ditch Windows if that happens.
Edit. By software I’m talking about in game features.
Like FSR and such? That’s available on Linux (FSR 1.x is integrated into SteamOS for compositor-level upscaling). AFAIK AMD does not officially support FSR on Linux but it’s written in a way that it should work with minor integration work. It’s written with cross-platform support in mind, given that it’s targeting PlayStation etc. als well.
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Yeah, the sole reason I don’t have linux on my old laptop is that lenovo has completely proprietary video drivers for it. I’m talking “manufacturer’s installers don’t think there’s a video card there” proprietary.
Also, single purpose use cases. Servers don’t necessarily run on custom hardware, but they do only one type of thing.
Because Microsoft ain’t gonna make Windows any better for this form factor until it is way late to the game, as usual.
Windows is basically a product for corporations now. Consumer Windows is an afterthought most of the time.
However, I could be wrong with Xbox’s theorized pivot away from hardware.
Consumer Windows is an afterthought most of the time.
Always has been
Windows is an enterprise OS with consumer features and macOS is a consumer OS with enterprise features.
What about Linux then? A 1337 OS with some noob features sprinkled in for color? Or maybe a server OS with desktop features stapled on the front?
Linux is an everything OS with whatever features you want/need. Do you need a hardened enterprise server? Linux got you. Do you need a user friendly OS for even non-technical people? Linux got you. Do you need something that can do a little of everything? Believe it or not, Linux got you.
Straight to jail.
You underclock your laptop? Linux got you.
You overclock your gaming rig? Believe it or not, Linux got you.
Underclock, overclock.
Or maybe a server OS with desktop features stapled on the front?
That is a very accurate description of Linux considering even X11 and Wayland are display servers. Pipewire and Pulseaudio are also servers.
Don’t misunderstand what a server means, however. Just because something is called a server doesn’t mean it’s not made for the desktop. It’s a technical term that doesn’t necessarily relate to networking, it might just relate to stuff like inter-process communication.
However, Wayland is designed for the desktop environment. It’s like the main reason why it replaces X11, which was designed for terminals.
My comment was mostly meant as a joke. I’m aware most of them use their networking capabilities for IPC and being able to use them remotely is just a cool feature resulting from that (except X11).
I know this is a joke comment but Linux is for sure an enterprise kernel first and foremost. It did not start that way but that is how it has been developed and managed for many years now. Maybe the most incorrect thing anybody has ever said on record in the computer industry is when Linus said Linux was “not going to be anything big and professional”.
Linux distributions, which are conceived and managed totally independently from the kernel are available for every niche. Many of them are desktop and “consumer” oriented. With many Linux distributions, I would say that it is more accurate that they are hobbiest oriented more than what Microsoft would mean be “consumer”.
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And I’m a man with boy-like intellect, just in case anyone was wondering.
I don’t know that Microsoft has any business trying to make Windows support these devices better…
Windows is entirely built around two pillars:
- Enterprise support for corporations, and team machine management
- Entirely open compatibility so they can run almost any hardware you put into it, plug into it, and backwards compatibility for all that for as long as possible.
Portable game machines are not an enterprise product. Nor do you care about broad hardware support or upgradability. Nor do you care about plugging in your parallel port printer from 1985. Nor do you care about running your ancient vb6 code to run your production machines over some random firewire card.
Windows’ goal is entirely oppositional to portable gaming devices. It makes almost no sense for them to try to support it, as it’d go against their entire model. For things like these, you want a thin, optimized-over-flexible, purpose built OS that does one thing: play games. Linux is already built to solve this problem way better than Windows.
But, Microsoft will probably be stupid enough to try anyway.
Nor do you care about plugging in your parallel port printer from 1985
You haven’t seen what I’ve been using my Steam Deck for. Gaming was not my primary motivation for buying it.
It’s basically replaced my laptop. I carry a docking station, mouse, and full size keyboard with me. Eventually I’m gonna be using it for some robotics and remote control projects and other experiments. It’s a full blown PC in a handheld, I mean, why not?
That’s great and I’m glad that works for you.
But most people buying portable gaming handhelds are not doing that. And the people looking for things like that are likely landing closer to a surface or standard laptop, which Windows already supports well.
Curious, how is this workflow working for you. I basically did the same thing, at this point the only real blockers are the screensizens is too small and I don’t like carrying separate keyboard and mice from my case.
I only use the setup when I’m mobile (like on vacation somewhere) , and everything fits in a backpack. It’s not too annoying, and it’s nice to work on some code while I’m away somewhere and the next minute launch a game to unwind. I’m not going to be sitting there staring at a tiny screen and working for hours though, you’re right about the screen size being something to get used to.
windows optimized for handhelds is already a work in progress, its just not remotely done
Microsoft has never, since inception, been able to ship an embedded Windows that wasn’t a festering pile of dog shit.
embedded windows in the japanese arcade scene has been working fine so far. for example, most of bandais arcade machines in the past like 7 yaers or so basically run embedded windows.
it was a benefit to non arcade users because a majority of games that were on those machines eventually got pc versions, or a new game on pc for the first time (e.g Tekken 7, Taiko No Tatsujin), where historically, theyve basically never been on PC officially.
So let me get this straight – your defense of Microsoft, in this instance, is Japanese cabinet makers, making arcade machines, where the user doesn’t interact with the operating system in the slightest bit? A Japan that still faxes even in modernity? That’s your defense of MS? I bet they aren’t even using a special build of windows — just the desktop schlock with some shitty 3rd party app on top.
im not defending mocrosoft at a whole, im just saying windows embedded isnt as bad as you actually think it is, and consumers benefitted from it more than it not
A Japan that still faxes even in modernity?
what a country does has barely anything to do with rhis context. thats like saying the U.S is shit because they didnt have tap to pay until Covid happened, whoch other countries have been usong for a decade before, or having terrible public transportation and internet infrastructure, and in the latter case, basically invented it.
That’s your defense of MS? I bet they aren’t even using a special build of windows — just the desktop schlock with some shitty 3rd party app on top.
that shows how ignorant you are with it because all of the games arent directly ported. look into the efforts required to port Gundam Extreme Versus 2 on teknoparrot. if it was a native game, then they wouldnt have to jump through as many hoops as the game doesnt have a PC port (nor any of its predecessors have ever had one)
Windows phone on Nokia Lumia was pretty good and well polished, and I’m a Linux fan.
Windows optimized for anything seems to be pretty much impossible.
They could even bring back the Zune branding if they finally do it. It’d almost be poetic.
Year of the linux handheld then?
Thank you for making your comment licensed under creative common. I’ll now steal it, repackage it and sell for 9.99$ without even acknowledging your existence
But at least you know you’re a bad boy and Santa will know too.
But… it’s a Non-commercial Attribution license. /s/ns
I’m joking, but on a more serious note for those that don’t know, not all Creative Commons licenses allow you to monetize, and be sure to actually read which version of license is used if you plan to use a CC work for anything other than personal use.
But will you train an LLM with it??
Oh my God! Someone call the police!
Why did you license your comment?
He doesn’t want to let us use his comment for commercial purposes, which is a shame. I don’t know how I’m going to pay for dinner now.
You joke but when “media” outlets boldly steal 90% of their content directly from reddit posts and comments without attribution for commercial use, maybe including a license isnt crazy anymore?
They’re already stealing the content. You think a license is going to stop them from doing it anyway? Who says this license is valid in any jurisdiction that the comment is being held on (yay federation!)? Who says that a random user submitting something to a public forum where data is stored by third parties in order to run that forum can be licensed anyway?
If my server makes me money in some form, and you submit stuff after the fact and license it yourself, that doesn’t magically apply nor does it bind the server owners to anything. Unfortunately the comment you submit to a homeserver doesn’t actually belong to you at that point.
Case and point, the community we’re in !linux says licensed under CC BY 3.0, and this user claims CC BY-NC-SA 4.0, but the community has not necessarily given him the right to post ANY license attached to his comment and still post. conflicting licenses would be at play. And this is ignoring that lemmy.ml may not have granted either !linux OR the user to apply their own license to content, you know… since they’re storing the data and own the server/service.
It would take even the most junior of lawyer to get it thrown out. Especially since it’s fair use to report on the goings on of public. Even if that reporting agency makes money by reporting on the comment.
It’s a bit out there, but I see why he does it. It is a shame that the media has sunk to such lows.
Christ your comment is the funniest thing I’ve read in a while. Thank you for the laugh
My comment is licensed under GPL. If you look at it when you reply, it means your reply is a derivative work and must retain the license. Have fun.
AI
I don’t think linking to a licence that increases the rights of third parties to do things with your words (over the default all rights reserved) will do very much for you there.
Nobody knows yet 🤷 I’ll do it anyway
I think you’re missing my point. You are giving people more rights to use your comments by putting them under CC licence than not putting them under any.
I think you’re missing the point. It’s a non-commercial license. Non-commercial AI is completely fine by me. Commercial is not.
No, how was I supposed to infer that you were fine with non-commercial AI from your two letter response to why you were licencing your comment?
I think its fairly naive to think that linking to a licence will do anything to stop commercial AI but not open ones, but you go for it if you think it’s worthwhile.
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Reminds me of my friend getting in trouble in high school’s the PC lab for changing all the startup screens from saying “Windows 95” to “Winblows 95.”
A misunderstood visionary.
My bet is that there’s an Xbox handheld in the work and Microsoft is working on a Windows version just for it.
They already have a Windows version for a handheld. The Xbox runs a modified version of Windows 11. All they’d need to do to bring it in line with PC handhelds is allow the install of third party launchers (they probably wouldn’t do this though).
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MS has CBL Mariner, they could release their own linux handheld
But then they would show the general public that Linux is a thing worth mentioning. I doubt that many people outside IT know about CBL Mariner.
If they released a handheld it would absolutely be locked down, Xbox branded and only using the Xbox store
i think they are already mentioning it: MS has a help webpage on how to install linux, both WSL2 on Windows machine, or how to burn iso and install linux on bare metal. https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/linux/install
Microsoft have quite a bit of software that runs on Linux (PowerShell, VS Code, .NET, Azure tools, Intune / Endpoint Manager, even SQL Server) so it’s understandable that they’d have documentation to explain it to their customers.
Yep, they run it themselves even. Previously their motto was “Linux is a Cancer” now they have embraced it and developed their own distro (CBL). With how everything is going WebApp these days, I can see a day when Windows will be linux based kernel.
Cause windows sucks and licenses?
Yes, the extremely popular handheld PC gaming market.
It’s small, but growing very fast. While actual PC has stagnated, no?
Hasn’t Steam just beat its record of simultaneously online users? And while I’m sure Steam Decks contributed to this, we’re taking of numbers an order of magnitude bigger. Hell, PC gaming is doing so well that we’re seeing until then console exclusive games come out on Steam.
I think the problem is that it’s super popular for those who already own a PC and have a huge Steam Library. I got console friends wanting a Steam Deck but ultimately don’t want to buy one because it means rebuying their games.
As much as I love my steam deck and the os, I do wish it was slightly easier to install third party games.
I know it’s not hard and I’ve installed plenty, but like it’s so incredibly easy with steam that it’s made me lazy to even install games I already have on gog
It’s not Linux or SteamOS, but both Epic and CD Projekt don’t support their store client apps and launchers on Linux sadly, such we have to use unofficial ones such as Heroic Game Launcher
But gotta admit, its a damn good launcher! If i had to use windows again, I would install it instead of the other two for sure!
It’s actually pretty easy with lutris and bottles. The same process that I do on my arch machine works on the decks desktop mode.
Oh, I’ll check this, because I’ve just been installing the games through adding a non steam game through the desktop and it’s a bit annoying
I’m sure there’s a guide for it. All you need is either lutris or bottles and flatseal if you’re installing on the SD card.
The problem that could occur is: Right now Microsoft doesn’t care about Linux or competitors, every OEM has to buy a Windows key anyways regardless. If SteamOS actually becomes a shippable option, Microsoft’s cavalier attitude is going to change quickly, and a lot sooner than it will take them to get an Xbox Handheld out the door.
Why would an OEM need to buy a Windows license if the customer has no interest in using Windows?
It’s in their licensing, and how MS-DOS became the de facto operating system of early PCs. If you want to license Windows, you have to pay for every unit you sell - not just units with Windows pre-installed, but every unit.
Incredible.
The deal Microsoft does with OEMs gives them a discount only if they pay Microsoft for every PC they sell, whether or not it actually comes with Windows.
I don’t understand how that’s a problem. Can you go into a little bit more detail about what you think the consequences might be to manufacturers choosing to use Steam OS or some other Linux operating system on their handheld devices?
Embrace, extend, and extinguish Microsoft’s gonna do what it does.
Ideally it would be better to see eventually a variety of OSs based on linux, maybe forks of steamOS.
But for the time being, definitely adopting steamOS would be better.
Well there is bazzite or chimera
or even nobara for steam deck
Are there more than just Steam Deck?
The next Ayaneo handheld is going to use SteamOS.
To clarify, not an official Valve version, just in case somebody is wondering.
It’s HoloISO or a modified version based on it, which is a Linux distro that bring most of SteamOS to other devices (except ones with Nvidia).
Is that reported somewhere? As in, we know for sure they didn’t get it from Valve?
Yeah AYANEO themselves confirmed it. It mentions HoloISO, although I think originally it didn’t and said SteamOS and some posts/comments etc did say otherwise due to that.
Thanks for the link!
It’s kinda more interesting that they are leveraging HoloISO rather than it just being a straight-up partnership with Valve.
That’s literally the second paragraph in the linked article. Do people not actually read the articles on here?
Yeah, they’re former Redditors. They don’t read past the titles.
A bunch of them saw Valve say “We’re coming out with a gaming PC that vaguely resembles an adult Nintendo Switch” and went “uh yeah us too!” I know Asus and Lenovo have one.
I think he meant more consoles with SteamOS.
There are many handheld PC gaming devices, however, none can match Steam Decks’ price with its performance.
How many actual PC handhelds are there?
The link in the article that promises “plenty” of handheld examples talks about Steam deck, Asus, and… the switch. And that’s it. And obviously the switch is not a PC handheld, so… ?There’s quite a few. Steam deck and Asus, as you mentioned, but there’s also AyaNeo, GPD, OneXPlayer, Aokzoe, Lenovo, etc. And many of these brands have several different models, if you’re counting individual products.
MSI just announced their handheld PC too, it has an Intel (Meteor Lake) CPU with Arc graphics.
Oh, good shout! That one looks 👌🏻👌🏻👌🏻
Ah thanks.
How many of those do people actually use though?Valve was essentially LATE to the handheld market, they just had the technical and company will to do it the best.
And, most importantly, money bags to subsidise the hell out of it. Let’s not kid ourselves here, the damn low price is one of the main reasons why people buy the SD rather than the ~2x more expensive alternatives.
It helps they actually made their own OS to make it easier for people to get into. Windows really doesn’t work on those small screens
Not sure what you mean – they all run Linux. The images just have the video hardware configs baked in with a preconfigured user and start script. You would be amazed at how easy that is to do, all things considered. I have a few kiosk configurations I created for the two Home Assistant panels I have in my house.
I hear that.
But how many people actually use all of those other brands listed?
It’s ok to just say “no one” without downvoting.
All I’m hearing is crickets
Anecdotally, I have an Aya Neo. I know a few people with a few of the others brands. There’s a decently sized Aya Neo Discord that I’m part of, and I would assume the other brands have something similar. There’s definitely use of non-Steam handhelds, or there wouldn’t be a growing market for them.
Do you have a steam deck too?
I do not
Ah yes lemme whip out my magical sales numbers ball and let you know
Such as?
This is the best summary I could come up with:
We can only hope this is the start of a trend, as Valve’s gaming-focused operating system brings many advantages over gaming portables (and maybe desktops) that run a full Windows installation.
In an increasingly competitive portable PC gaming market, being able to cut out that significant cost over Windows-based alternatives could be a big deal.
Our review of the ROG Ally highlights just how annoying it can be to have to fiddle with Windows settings on a touchscreen running “an awkwardly scaled” version of the OS.
That comes through in many little ways, like a built-in “suspend” mode, tons of battery-optimization features, and menus that are designed for a small screen and joystick navigation.
That’s a huge change from the desktop-focused “Steam Machines” era of the mid-'10s, when early versions of SteamOS could only run the relative handful of games that developers bothered to explicitly port to Linux.
That’s also a huge change from the Steam Machines era, when Ars’ testing showed that many SteamOS games ran significantly worse than their Windows counterparts on the same desktop hardware.
The original article contains 651 words, the summary contains 178 words. Saved 73%. I’m a bot and I’m open source!
The article is not at all answering the headline
Why would I switch to a proprietary OS that only exists on one device that isn’t even sold in my country?
The article is about the manufacturers switching from a proprietary licensed OS, not you as a consumer.
Valve isn’t really encouraging it but it sounds like Ayaneo is using the community offering ( https://github.com/HoloISO/holoiso )
