force fed the bible.
Dude…I was talking to my 5yo today. They’ve learned the pledge of allegiance in kindergarten.
He recited it, perfectly, verbatim.
I cringed slightly at the “under God” part, as I’m a devout atheist (though we’ve barely mentioned religion at all to the kids).
Once he was done I asked him if he knows what any of it means.
“No. But I can say the whole thing!”
Smh.
Drag thinks you should explain that children shouldn’t say things they don’t understand.
I like it when drag talks about themself in the third person.
Thank you, but drag actually has person independent pronouns. Drag is talking about dragself in the first person. And drag’s pronouns work the same way when someone else is talking about drag, no matter if it’s second or third person.
Drag is even cooler than I thought.
I was, um, gently informed by a teacher once that you can say the pledge without “under God” and it sounds natural as it was originally intended. This blew my mind as a young atheist and made me realize how pervasive religion is.
Or you could just not talk to multicolored cloth
I would consider the daily fascist flag ritual the pervasive thing here. If someone wants to swear by his faith that seems much smaller of an issue to me.
Incidently it seems fascist nationalism and other totalitarian political ideologies to have been at odds with religion in their times and places. See Hitler and Stalins regimes as examples.
Meanwhile my 3yo stepdaughter in kindergarten spends the day painting with watercolors, singing, dancing, playing with others and apparently learning common courtesy (The other day she told me that in kindergarten they’re supposed to say “please” when asking for something).
Much as I’ve wanted to move to the US for the significantly higher salary ceiling as a software engineer, I don’t think I could do it to her.
Well, the much higher salary ceiling might look nice on paper, but let me tell you from experience that it is eaten up quickly by higher cost of living. I have been fortunate enough to work for short (one to three year) stints in the US, most of that in the SF bay area. A few years after returning (more or less for good) to my EU home country where I now have a government job (which does not pay as well as industry jobs), one of my former SF bosses asked how much he’d need to pay me in order for me to come work for him long term. It was quite tempting, and I did the math back and forth and in the end arrived at 2.5x of what I’m making now, and that is on the low end. I have a few colleagues and friends in similar situations, and the 2x-3x figure is what we generally agree on. Between health insurance, child care, retirement savings and housing, your cost will be dramatically higher than in most EU countries, and this does not factor in differences in Labor rights and potential visa issues.
The SF bay area of course is extreme, but a low six figure salary puts you just above the poverty line there (so people say). Working remotely living in some low COL state might be an option, but then again you will live in East armpit nowhere Kansas…
I cringed at the part “pledge of allegiance” and then again at “kindergarten”.
Americans don’t realise how north Korea style that is.
Oh we do. We often recognize it while still in school. But you learn quickly you are not allowed to question it. If you don’t follow orders, you will be disciplined.
Two “patriots” mad at fact so far.
Couple of years back i stumbled over this video, which i as a german think is absolutely fucked up: https://youtu.be/DjX7zoFrd7g?si=6BtMIxqTxtdAYHvi
Quote from the Wiki about the “Young Marines”
The creed that every Young Marine lives by is:
- Obey my parents and all others in charge of me whether young or old.
- Keep myself neat at all times without other people telling me to.
- Keep myself clean in mind by attending the church of my faith.
- Keep my mind alert to learn in school, at home, or at play. *Remember that having self-discipline will enable me to control my body and mind in case of an emergency.
Its absolute insane what they do to this kids: https://www.instagram.com/means_tv/reel/C7T93trOtg3/
Fellow german here, if you want even worse ick, look for “Jesus Camp” on YouTube.
Reminds me of when I had to have a meeting with the school about some additional speech therapy for my daughter. It was in the morning and cut to the Canadian Anthem playing. Everyone stopped what they were doing and stood up for the anthem. Fucking weirded the shit out of me. I’m 47 and born and raised Canadian. Standing or reciting anything blindly as a group is fucking weird.
Freedom and democracy my ass.
People don’t vote because politicians don’t materially benefit them. When politicians provide significant support to regular ass people in way that materially benefit them you will see more voters turn out, not when you whine to them about them not voting. If politicians wanted this to occur, our state reps and their staffers would be in our work places, talking to people, giving them reasons to be involved with the political party apparatus, and providing material aid to the poorest and least represented among us with their own hands. We have bad voter turn out because shitty, myopic politics breeds political disinvestment. This post has it pretty much exactly backwards.
Anecdotally, I have friends from MA who don’t give one fuck about politics. Haven’t voted in years despite me telling them, messaging them with voter registration status, and locations, giving them every resource they need to make it as easy as possible. None of it mattered. Two of these friends in the last year have told me they want to vote for Governor Healy because they intend to use the free community college program, unprompted. Went out of their way to tell me. Another friend told me they like their state rep because they showed up at a union rally for their union and my friend realized from talking to the politician personally that the rep was a socialist who just happened to have a D next to their name.
Which is why Reps are the ones constantly vying for various “voter security” measures (voter suppression).
Vote like your life depends on it. Because it does.
It’s crusty as hell but checks out.
“I’m not going to vote because democrats aren’t communist which makes them basically republicans” - average Lemmy.ml user
Jk it’s actually something more like “I’m not going to vote because I’m European”
it’s actually something more like “I’m not going to vote because I’m European”
That or they’re not of legal age.
For me it’s the genocide.
So you’re gonna do nothing about it. Cool.
Both sides support Israel, one side has advocated and has vocal members who advocate against the genocide. The other side is for the genocide and thinks they should go further.
But you’re right, both sides, etc etc, Sit out.
Who says I’m doing nothing about it? All you know about it is that I refuse to vote in favor of genocidal regimes. Besides, refusing to vote for someone who’s actively committing a genocide is doing something. It’s exercising your right to vote in a meaningful way by showing that there are lines you do not cross. I wouldn’t vote for Hitler when that was an option, and I won’t vote for Harris (or Trump) now.
Make sure to pat yourself on the back for doing something when the christofascists take over, applaud Israels “tough” stance on “terrorism”, and kill or chase out every Palestinian that doesn’t lick IDF boots and ask for seconds.
And you are so sure thats not happening now? How exactly could trump accelerate any of that. Israel literally does what it wants. It doesnt give two shits.
At least bring up the right ally we would be screwing over which is Ukraine, but oh look the democrats are fucking them over too. Interesting that.
While it may be said that Trump is not necessarily the most Israel friendly president, he is undoubtedly the most Netanyahu friendly president (the leader of the Israeli regime perpetuating the genocide in Gaza and the West Bank).
Trump brags he gave Israel the Golan Heights, part of Syria that Israel has been occupying for decades, by formally recognizing Israeli sovereignty over it.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_recognition_of_the_Golan_Heights_as_part_of_Israel
Trump recognized Jerusalem as the capital is Israel and moved its embassy there from Tel Aviv. The status of Jerusalem is considered a key part of Israel-Palestine negotiations.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_recognition_of_Jerusalem_as_capital_of_Israel
Trump’s son in law, Jared Kushner, mentions that Israel should remove the civilian population in Gaza and clean it up, stating it would be valuable waterfront property.
Trump killed the “Iran Nuclear Deal”, which was vehemently opposed by Netanyahu. When Netanyahu spoke in front of congress opposing the deal in 2015 he was invited by a Republican and Democrats walked out of his speech in protest.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_withdrawal_from_the_Joint_Comprehensive_Plan_of_Action
Politicians that criticise Israel, or even want conditions on their “military aid”, risk being targeted by the pro-Israel groups. Jamal Bowman had his position more or less publically butchered to set an example and warn others not to oppose Israel. While some others survived massive spending against them by the pro-Israel lobby, AIPAC and other groups are effective in making sure most politicians avoid thr topic of Israel, at least publicly.
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/06/20/nyregion/aipac-bowman-latimer.html
Netanyahu was clearly displeased with his meeting with Harris. His repeated escalation of violence is increasing tensions in the Middle East and angering a large subset of the US Democratic base. More and more people are under the impression that he is trying to harm the Democratic ticket and/or lock the US in conflict so that, of Democrats still win the presidency, they will have no choice but to continue to back Israel and Netanyahu’s regime.
But you haven’t considered the fact that the people you’re talking to are arguing in bad faith
All of these things are happening or heading towards happening now, under Democrat leadership.
Explain to me how either the republicans would make it worse, or the democrats would make it better.
• Democrats are VERY reluctantly adhering to a trade agreement and trying to negotiate and end to their hostilities.
• Trump said they need to “finish the job.”
bOtH siDeS!
Eastern European specifically.
Even more specific?
As east as you can get in Europe :)
But I thought Russians were voting in us elections? 🤔
Do you not think genocide is a good reason to not vote for someone else? As far as red lines go, that’s a pretty good one.
it is more like genocide vs genocide + whole bunch of other human rights violations.
if you are not planning to overthrow the government by revolution then there is no way to go from these two options to an “ideologically perfect” (whatever that means) government in just one election cycle, needs to be done in smaller steps.
Withholding your vote until genocide is taken off the table pressures her to give in to their demands, though. There’s no universal constant saying we need to have a genocide. Either she loves genocide, or she’s supporting it because she’s worried she won’t get the votes without it. If it’s the second one, and I hope it is, then the Uncommitted movement is simply doing the same thing to establish their own power, and for a better reason: to save the lives of their friends, family, aid workers, doctors, and journalists.
Nah, holding your vote appears to be you just being another unmotivated democratic voter without regard to why. No one gets polled on why they didn’t vote 4 years prior. At best Harris barely wins and at worst Trump takes office and you get 4 years of genocide + Ukrainian subjugation + subjugation of women, minorities, and immigrants at home.
Kind of a no-brainer that you should vote for Harris here.
No, if it was a no-brainer, the no-brained idiot you’re responding to would already understand this.
Not if it’s withheld as part of a wider movement or given to a third party. That’s why it’s being paired with protests and other campaigns letting them know what they have to do to get their vote back.
Harris barely winning but losing something like Michigan to spook her into actually doing something material to stop supporting Israel is probably my preferred scenario right now, but she already said no arms embargo is on the table and after an election she’s not really beholden to voters anymore, so doubt that will help, either.
“barely winning” is a dangerous game to play when the consequences of losing is getting much much much further away from your stated goals. if anything it is impossible to push Trump to an anti weapon sale stance (since his core supporters don’t care and Trump is where money and strongest lobbies will be) than Kamala whose core supporters actually care but are turning the other way for now due to the fear of losing to Trump.
Supporting a genocide is a dangerous game as well, not only politically but physically, to at this point hundreds of thousands of people. Millions have been displaced from their homes. Not everyone can just ignore it so easily.
so late into the elections it will only increase chances of Trump winning and will not convince her to change stance.
the risk of this is that you move even further away from your goals, practically to a place where it is impossible to do anything about genocide (since core supporters of Trump wont give a shit about and Trump himself for sure will be where money and strongest lobbies are).
this plan only makes sense if your perspective is “by diverting votes we let Trump win, everything goes to hell and then there is some sort of reform/revolution after he fucks up everything”. But given that maybe %30 of the country is still big time Trump supporters, we are likely looking at a civil war in that case.
You’re never going to be able to convince a lot of people to accept a genocide of their own people. It’s just not possible for some and I don’t blame them. A lot of Americans have never been attacked at home so they don’t understand. It’s a gamble the Administration is doing to keep up their rabid cheerleading of the Nazi-like side. Hopefully it doesn’t blow back on them.
what if realistically speaking the only current choice is between even a worse situation in middle east vs maybe slightly better than the status quo? I know it sucks but without changing how the elections in US works, you are not going to go from democrats vs republicans to a progressive major party in one election. In one election your only chance is to get slightly closer to it or quite further away.
Dear US Americans,
please vote for anything that speeds up the downfall of your country.
Sincerely everyone outside of the USA.
Well it’s more open and honest than some things I’ve heard argued from your instance.
This instance bashing is funny because back than when I chose lemmy.ml, I had no fucking clue about Lemmy and it was the developers instance.
It’s just mask off red fascism. Fascists want to kill everyone based on race and skull measurements. Tankies want to kill everyone based on ideology and thoughts. The above ml user is just flaunting a gleeful hatred of people which is unworthy of praise.
hating the USA = red fascism. Please go on and explain this to the global south.
Bazinga based
Vote for supporters of ranked choice voting
80% of Americans don’t support gun control. American Political parties are coalitions among themselves. Even if Ds won by 20 points they won’t have the support to do things like implement nationalized healthcare or overturning the 2nd Amendment.
80% of Americans don’t support gun control
Lol, seriously? Did your NRA rep tell you that blatant lie? Source please.
Most Americans are stupid and think gun control means Guntakeaway
“80% of Americans don’t support gun control” is pretty laughable wrong, considering the numbers actually paint a much different picture. According to Pew and APMRL, 58% of Americans want stricter gun laws, and nearly everyone—86%—supports universal background checks. 86%. Not exactly a fringe opinion, is it?
Also, the idea that no one’s on board with any gun control measures conveniently ignores the fact that a majority of Republicans even support some restrictions like keeping guns out of the hands of people with mental illnesses. It’s almost like you made this number up.
Sure, not every gun control proposal gets broad support—take things like an assault weapons ban, which has more partisan splits—but even there, almost three-quarters of Americans are on board with requiring licensing and testing, just like with cars. So, trying to paint gun control as some sort of massively unpopular idea just falls flat.
According to Pew and APMRL, 58% of Americans want stricter gun laws, and nearly everyone—86%—supports universal background checks. 86%. Not exactly a fringe opinion, is it?
They hyper majority of gun sales have background checks involved in them. Universal background checks would either ban the private sale of guns (which SCOTUS would likely overturn) or open up the background check system to private citizens (which will almost certainly be abused from a computer security perspective & will lead to people realizing just how poor the system is).
The point isn’t that 80% don’t support gun control, it’s that each thing on the wishlist isn’t widely popular. And even if the actions would lead to a landslide, Americans wouldn’t be happy about it.
So, you’re concerned about universal background checks affecting private sales? The whole point is to prevent dangerous individuals from using these loopholes to buy guns. Your argument is basically defending a system that lets people bypass regulations using airy justifications even though it’s exactly why universal checks are necessary.
Your claim about potential abuse from a “computer security perspective” is just weak. There’s no concrete evidence that this would be a serious, unsolvable issue. We handle sensitive data in far more complex systems, so throwing out vague concerns isn’t a valid argument. It’s just a way to avoid real engagement.
And your SCOTUS speculation? It’s a distraction. Sure, legal challenges might come up, but that doesn’t erase the fact that 86% of Americans want universal background checks. Hiding behind hypothetical court rulings doesn’t change the overwhelming public support.
Your entire response relies on hypothetical fears, speculative legal scenarios, and flimsy concerns about private sales. It’s laughable that you can be so incredibly far off the mark about actual opinions of Americans on these topics while simultaneously claiming to speak for them. But none of it holds up against the simple fact that most Americans—across party lines—support stronger background checks and more gun control. You’re flailing to avoid engaging with the data, and it’s not working.
The whole point is to prevent dangerous individuals from using these loopholes to buy guns.
Dangerous individuals largely aren’t using this loophole to buy guns. That’s part of the problem.
The only gun control that might have a chance at stopping gun crime is a total civilian ban and that requires an Amendment.
You would have to define “gun control”. As I’m sure that more than 20% of Americans would be in favor of incarcerated prisoners not being allowed to carry guns, which is a form of “gun control”.
Forgive my ignorance please, I’m not an american. I see these posts often on reddit and lemmy, but shouldn’t these posts be displayed on tiktok, billboards, or anywhere that those poeple who don’t vote frequent? Is there any stat at all to show whether such posts work?
Pay no attention to them, they want people to vote for someone who supports genocide. They know they’re losing so they’re doing everything and anything they can right now, just tune them out.
Love seeing bullshit like this downvoted. It goes to show rust commoner sense and an adherence to reality stand up again propagandist bullshit.
Dude there are 2 options in the us both support genocide just one of them wants to deport every immigrant and put in a ton of awful policies And genuinely is a threat to democracy pick the better option and vote
one of them wants to deport every immigrant
They both deport the same amounts of immigrants: https://ohss.dhs.gov/topics/immigration/yearbook/2019/table39 Obama deported more than Trump
a threat to democracy
You just admitted that you don’t have democracy two seconds ago. You can’t say “I have no choice but to let my rulers commit genocide in my name” and two seconds later say “We have a democracy worth defending”
Have you not heard their new plans for deportation its going to be wayyy worse than he was when he was in office.
At least there are 2 shitty options versus none
The democrats have also drifted rightward on deportation in this election, saying that they’ll be harder on the border than trump was in 2016, which, again, they already had been doing. The cost benefit here is an argument over whether or not one or the other will be like, 5% worse, and some of us, like you’ve just been sent evidence for in the previous comment, aren’t even convinced that the democrats will be any better.
Perhaps there is a third approach here, yes? Perhaps there is something in the specifics of this lack of actual, tangible democracy that exists for people, that means your specific vote is mostly meaningless anyways, which means it’s freed up to be thrown at some third party candidate, yes? Do you live in a swing state? Do you live in a gerrymandered swing district in one of said swing states? Do you live in a state where your electoral college candidate has to obey your vote? If the answer to any of those was no, then congrats, you basically have free reign to vote for whoever actually aligns closest to your beliefs, because your vote doesn’t actually matter.
Bullshit. Your vote matters. It might not impact you local election but the more obviously backward the electoral college looks the more likely someone will throw it in the trash like they should have decades ago.
Do you have any actual argument other than just saying “Bullshit. your vote matters.” though? Anything more to back that up, with a basis in how the system actually functions? Do you think the democrats will legitimately provide a challenge to FPTP voting? To the electoral college? Do you think the republicans will? How would that get overturned, what would that actually look like?
There’s no point arguing with MAGA about who to vote for. Just point, laugh, and move on. It’s the 11th hour. They’re not going to stop now.
A LOT of the time spent being an adult is about making choices where only bad ones are available. You don’t have to like one or the other but you have to be grown enough to recognize the difference between an orange hippo flinging shit around and someone who you can trust won’t be taking an actual shit at the table during a meeting with heads of state
You start with mentioning choices where only bad ones are available, and then go on do reduce this one to two choices. Thats where the disconnect is. There are many choices, there were literally half a dozen on my ballot.
Politics won’t change until we vote for it, and splitting between the two main parties and casting your vote against the one you hate most isnt working, clearly.
People need to be aware that just because people shout that there are only two choices does not make it true. In fact, I’d argue you should always be wary of what an angry internet mob is shouting on every single post related to politics.
Both support genocide, it’s not just the democrats.
So your solution is to let Trump win and make everyone but the rich pay for that genocide, probably destroy us democracy, while all this will change nothing for Palestine ?
shouldn’t these posts be displayed on tiktok, billboards, or anywhere that those poeple who don’t vote frequent?
No. This is all just preaching to the choir for karma.
There is no karma on Lemmy
Yes there is. It’s just more self gratifying and less purposeful though.
People still vote based on “in-group” logic and moral opinions whether comments add to discussions or not. People still act superior on here for feeling they have support when getting upvotes.
Decisions are made by those who show up, it’s as simple as that.
You may hate it, but the Republicans are definitely better at getting people in line, both literally and figuratively. They turn up and vote even if they don’t like the candidate because… that’s their party. And it’s the only one that they feel represents them.
Meanwhile a lot of Democrats stay home because the candidate isn’t the one they wanted, doesn’t support everything they want, is too old/young, etc. There’s this attitude of ‘if I can’t have my perfect candidate, I’m staying home out of protest.’
I get it. Every voter wants a perfect candidate. But perfect is the enemy of good, as the saying goes.
I always look at it like this: if I vote, I might not always get the outcome that I want, but at the very least I’m nullifying the vote of a person on the other side.
If the other guy shows up and you don’t? That’s how you lose rights.
Be someone who shows the fuck up.
Yes, let’s reward the Cheney DNC so we can see how far right they’ll go and how many war crimes they can do! Remember, they can’t take away your rights if there’s a (D) next to the name!
Every voter wants a perfect candidate.
I’m so tired of this line, as if progressives don’t like the Democratic Party because of a 5% difference in policy opinions.
Our options for President for the past 30-40 years have been fascist capitalist or capitalist willing to compromise with fascists. To those who actually care about worker’s rights or the environment of the planet we live on, it’s a difference between a candidate who agrees with you on 0%, or one who agrees with you on 2%, but only the policies that don’t hurt capitalism.
It’s not a case of letting perfect be the enemy of the good, it’s a case of the lesser evil IS STILL FUCKING EVIL. Fascism now and fascism in 4-8 years still results in fascism; how are we supposed to be excited to vote when those are the only options we are ever allowed to pick between?
Hyperbole at its finest. Don’t vote or vote for Trump and see how things turn out.
I get it; the entire system sucks. Even here in the Netherlands with a dozen political parties, you rarely get the government you want. But there’s still things you can do even if you really don’t want to vote in this particular election.
You can support groups that promote voting reform, like ranked choice voting. You can and should vote in all local elections. You can even RUN in many local elections, since candidates frequently run unopposed. You can help inform others about the voting process and get poorly represented groups to vote. If all else fails, there’s always the option of shooting your least favorite politician or doing an Oklahoma City. But try those other things first, OK?
Jesus Christ. Do you know how the Republicans have turned America into a right-wing hellscape?
Incrementally.
They inched the Overton Window right every time they won. Every time some egg said “If nobody’s offering universal healthcare I’m not voting” they get to set the terms.
They’ve been doing it for decades now.
Time to start inching it back.
The Democrats have helped incrementally, too, by not winding back their policies and generally giving in to their rhetoric. It’s insane that there’s no way to vote against genocide in this election, that they just removed the death penalty from their platform, that she is no longer for the Green New Deal or M4A, that they signed the crime bill, etc. The Democrats have been complicit in this ratchet effect as well.
Republicans are definitely better at getting people in line
That’s also really really strongly due to their efforts at voter suppression for the dems. It’s so much easier to show up to vote if you can just hop over to the local polling station, go right in, stand in line for like 5 minutes and leave while many urban voters in blue or especially black areas have to stand in line for hours and might still get turned away because their names have recently been purged from the voter rolls.
I show up every time and it feels like people still make decisions for me.
What keeps me voting is realizing that real life is disappointing and I’ll never be happy.
I know it’s tough, but try not to give in to pessimism. A better life is possible. It seems far and out of reach now, but it can be done. When people get too pessimistic, that’s when they don’t do anything.
This is assuming that the dems are anything but Captialist lapdogs, and willing to do any of this. They will not I am sorry to tell you that
Your opinion is not welcome on Lemmy!
Get out of here! Downvoted.
#VoteKamala
1 what lemmy lemmy.ml lemmy.world lemm.ee lemmygrad please specify [email protected] I need you to be more specific
Second Oh no your down vote hurt me so much how will I ever recover that someone on the internet disagreed with me.
This is assuming that the dems are anything but Captialist lapdogs
It assumes Dems are in the majority at a uniform distribution. As though an extra 10M Californians voting for Harris will bend the needle on a race in Ohio or North Carolina or Texas.
Nevermind the “You get a supermajority and can pass anything you want!” is a scenario we already had in 2009. And what happened? Big bank bailouts. Lukewarm regulations. A bloated Pentagon churning out failed project after failed project to the tune of trillions. No DC statehood. No SCOTUS majority. No gun control. No immigration reform. No Single Payer. No Abortion enshrinement.
Republicans only hold power because you let them hold power
True! But only for the leadership of the party. When grassroot Dems turnout in droves, the senior leadership takes office on a platform of Bipartisanship and Cooperation. When grassroot Dems collapse in exhaustion and despair, suddenly you’ve got a Unitary Executive and a Simple Majority in the House and Senate and a SCOTUS that can tear up the Social Contract at its leisure all stacked in the favor of Republicans.
What does happen if Harris wins big in November? Do Democrats get anything they were promised over the last 30 years? Or do we get a Democratic President more fixated on going to war with Iran and “balancing the budget” on the backs of SS/Medicare than offering an improved quality of life for American residents?
They only held a supermajority in the Senate for 72 days. The Minnesota seat was disputed and another democrat died of a tumor. Plus, enshrinement was not important back then as RvW wasn’t considered to be in danger.
no matter what time it is going to be the second, agian the Democrats are not beholden to the people, they know who’s intrests they serve and they lerch farther to the right each election
These new Star Wars films are wild.
“They have to do that stuff first to earn my vote! I don’t care if they never had the power to do so!”
-Morons
Except I keep voting and they still don’t care what I think because I’m on the left.
Vote in the primaries.
The only reason I’m a registered Democrat is so I can vote in the primaries in my state. And I do so as often as possible.
Good! You’re pulling things to the left!
So politics means “when you do things right it will feel like you’ve done nothing at all?”
No, it just means there’s more people pulling things to the right. Next you gotta convince people to pull with you.
The absolute top tier play for Leftists now is to show up in DROVES this election, hand Kamala a landslide. And then put up a ton of candidates in the next primary. Show the DNC that you are a force which can win elections, and then put the fear of being primaried in them. That’s dragging things to the left.
Considering every election makes me feel more like an outsider in my own country I think it will be less frustrating just to feel like I lose every election.
Unless you have some tips on breaking Americans of their patriotism.
“They’ve had 4 years to do something!”
Ughh… Learn how it works people. We had 2 conservative “Democrat” (golly gee look how Manchild is not a Democrat anymore literally…) senators deny everything from 2020-2022, then we lost the house to Republicans who’s idea of bipartisanship is to give Democrats the finger all the time from 2022-2024… Sooo what exactly could we do?
Then there’s the extra special people who want to “balance” by voting D president and R representatives… Ffs… That shit died when Gingrich started his “my way or go fuck yourself” brand of politics…
Yo are you even American cause you do alot of commenting under a Netherlands instance? You are literally the outside foreign influences.
Lol I can understand the confusion, but I really am an American in America. I came over from the reddit exodus last year and lemmy.world couldn’t handle all the new people for a time so I swapped over to a smaller instance that happens to be from the Netherlands.
I hope you don’t mind me squatting here feddit.nl :P
We welcome all. You can get your standard issue clogs and bitterballen at check in ;)
So have downvotes for pointing out the obvious and you have upvotes for saying your American despite no proof, so where are from? At least state would be nice cause otherwise you are a literally out of country influencer
If you didn’t believe me before what would it matter if I told you I’m from NY and specifically long island? I could tell you I hate the L.I.E with every fiber of my being, that housing prices for glorified shacks that look like they burned down twice are going for 300k, and that the ocean parkway is a decent way to get around shit traffic on sunrise highway. I don’t know how a random person on the Internet is supposed to prove that is true though.
You could also just check my comment history, I’ve mentioned where I’m from a number of times. It’s one of the reasons I don’t delete my history, so if anyone questions “who I am” they can just check it. Just be warned, there’s a bunch of stupid comments, exasperation, and self loathing there lol
Not that it matters, but at least I didn’t downvote you. I understand the skepticism
Bah, the only way to suss out a true New Yorker is to check their preferred Pizza joint.
My kitchen! Lol
My grandma taught me how to make a fried pizza years ago and now that’s all I want to make when I want pizza lol
You not from NY, you think anything other a parking spot going for 300, like stop playing
Why are you like this
I can’t help anymore than I already have. I’m not posting personal information to prove anything. I really don’t know why you’re so dead set on being convinced I’m not from the US.
If I was trying to influence people by being deceptive don’t you think I’d avoid having a foreign instance? I’d have like America.Patriot.Eagle or some nonsense lol
I’m from Suffolk county so…:
Edit: I had to come back to this because it just hit me, if you were able to tell that most prices really are wayyyyy higher than 300k are you from NY too? That would be absolutely wild out of all the people on here we’d end up having this discussion as “neighbors!” Small world and all that shit lol
Where’s your proof? This is the dumbest shit posted here today.
Why you even speaking up? Where you from?
You came into a comment chain which didn’t involve you and offered no proof of your own. Stop being like you are.
I mean, where you sign up says something about you, right?
Yarr.
You’re not wrong.
You are literally the outside foreign influences.
And who the fuck are you?
Discussing American politics online isn’t being a foreign influence. I’m not American, but sure as fuck their politics affects me.
Unfortunately whatever shit goes down in your country affects the rest of the world.
Nobody would’ve given a fuck about USA if it was as relevant as Romania or Denmark.
i’m just here for the yOuUuUuU sUpPoRt GeNoCiDe!!! chuds to get triggered and provide entertainment
inb4 “Genocide Joe” and “Blue MAGA” comments
Stop wasting your vote with the duopoly; voting out of fear should not be the norm.
Do not give in to the fearmongering that the establishment and the politicians push on the people every four years.
Our long-term goal should be to continue to build up grassroots movements for the working class; this won’t happen in a day.
^ THIS… is what MAGA wants you to believe. ^
Very long way to tell us how straight and white and not in immediate danger you are.
Wrong assumtions on all parts.
Nice try though, racing to the bottom with victimhood so as to disregard others that do not bow down to your ideals.
Again, just spelling out how white and not in danger you are, just now you’re lying about it because you think just going “nah bro” hides how above it all you’re talking as if you know you’ll be fine anyways.
Political tribalism is working really well to keep dividing us.
You have already made up your mind that everyone who does not follow your ideals must have much more privilege than yourself.
No, you just behave in a way that gives yours away because you’re the exact kind of privileged twit who unironically named themself “LeftOfJillStein” like that signals anything other than that you’re a purity tester who can afford to let everyone else die while they wait for their messiah before taking any action towards even harm mitigation.
Again, you made up your mind to have a competition of racing to the bottom, so you can continue to dismiss and ignore others.
I am for fighting for a better society for the future, and that starts by growing grassroots movements and continuing to help our local communities.
I see the Green Party as a stepping stone that will help us much more in the long term, tacking our systematic problems.
Exactly what grass roots steps are the greens taking aside from appearing out of thin air every four years to spoil elections to the Republicans?
I didn’t just make up my mind, you chose to behave in a way that made you obvious.
The green party’s goal is a trump win.
Sawant’s speech, introducing Jill Stein. Emphasis mine:
We are not in a position to win the White House, but we do have a real opportunity to win something historic, we could deny Kamala Harris the state of Michigan. And the polls show that most likely Harris cannot win the election without Michigan.”
That’s who you want to vote for?
The person trying to give Trump a win?
Just be honest with yourself and vote for Trump then. Or, you know, place a vote for Harris and not have republican fascism win.
Especially considering Jill Stein is a tool of the right wing. Democrats are left of Jill Stein.
If that’s true, then you’re in the same boat as us, only you’re holding the gun to your own head instead of having it held by someone else, and talking about what a principled stand pulling the trigger is going to be.
This imaginary gun is being held by the duopoly against the populace every four years, just so that the status quo can continue.
Fact that you call it imaginary continues to spell out for us your position of privilege.
You are no ally of the oppressed. You are an appropriator of our language to buy your own feelings of moral superiority.
I’m going to bet they’re not wrong. You clearly have nothing to lose by throwing away your vote. Meanwhile, others need to vote for their lives and the lives of our loved ones while YOU….
You get to sit and pretend that none of it matters unless you get your way.
That’s entitlement. And entitlement usually only come from a single source.
Hey vote and you can accomplish alllll this wonderful stuff, all the stuff you want.
You: wHy dO yOu WaNt mE tO vOtE iN fEaR.
Voting for the status quo for many decades did not improve the lives of workers.
In fact, we are involved in multiple wars, and our economy is not doing so well again.
Do you notice you misportray again? You vote for change. Sure it might be a little change until the Dems are sure they can keep winning, but that’s how change starts. Like, see the original post again.
Carter wanted to change things. And he got voted the fuck out.
So Clinton learned to go to the center, and he won.
Gore wanted to change things and ran on environmentalism. And bam he lost the election.
So Obama learned to not say anything. He ran on vague hope. But he did the ACA. And what was his thanks? To lose the House of Reps, then again lose the house of reps, and then to lose both the house of reps and the senate.
Clinton said she’d have a map room to fight climate change. And bam she lost the election.
So Biden learned to stfu about environmentalism. And he won. But Biden did green energy anyway. And what was this thanks? Polls said he was going to lose.
So Kamala also learned to stfu about environmentalism and pretty much anything progressive.
That’s what the situation is. The Dems go to the center because everytime they look left they loose. How do you make things progress? By giving Dems consistent and overwhelming victories.
Such an astute point! Well said!
Man… this makes me miss being in high school.
our economy is not doing so well again.
Uhh
Hey vote and you can accomplish alllll this wonderful stuff, all the stuff you want
Voting is a necessary but not sufficient condition for accomplishing things. For example, I voted for Obama to get some kind of single payer and that didn’t happen.
Plus there’s things I want that no amount of voting will accomplish, like the dissolution of nation-states.
What Dems need is consistent and overwhelming victories. Want single payer? Then you need more house reps and senators so Manchin types can’t water it down. Thus the message in the original post.
Unfortunately I can’t vote in other districts or states so I’m at the whims of whatever everyone else does.
Like I said in another post: Voting is a group project and everyone in my group is ignorant and short-sighted. I hold no hope for ever getting the sort of overwhelming victories we need.
If it will take forty years of solid Democratic majorities to unfuck this country then it will never be unfucked.
This is the point where I point to the original post.
The original post is very Pollyanna and ignores systemic and demographic problems that will never allow that level of domination.
I’ve been voting for 25 years and these things haven’t happened, and I don’t think they will ever happen.
It’s a tad simplistic but it’s on point because the left never shows up or votes 3rd party. If they showed up, it would be a big change.
Our long-term goal should be to continue to build up grassroots movements for the working class; this won’t happen in a day.
Cool, now which is easier to build movements under, a fascist regime, or a moderate milquetoast capitalist regime?
Will throwing your vote away in protest of ‘the duopoly’ do anything, in this election, to change that or meaningfully contribute to a grassroots movement for the working class?
We have a thousand tools at our disposal. Voting is one - an important one. Tools should not be misused, but each one used in its own unique way to maximize its effect on your goals.
Cool, now which is easier to build movements under, a fascist regime, or a moderate milquetoast capitalist regime?
Let’s be real here, the kind of person ranting on the internet about “ThE DuOpOlY” is not actually interested in building anything at all. They just like to stomp their feet, and shout “no fair!” over and over again like the petculant children they are, while the grownups are busy trying to prevent the country from descending into fascism.
Not the same person, but I carry similar sentiments. I helped form the second largest tech union in North America. What are you doing to support the working working class and build alternatives to capital? Tossing support at the nearest person in fear doesn’t prevent fascism.
To use your example, here are the options:
- today we can definitely get a Union that covers some tech workers but not all of them.
Or
- today we can try to get a Union for all tech workers, but it’s a long shot. And if we lose, the consequences are that we don’t get another union vote for 4 years and during that time, the tech companies get to run rampant with negative propaganda about unions, making the challenge even harder next time.
Which would you choose, second largest tech union guy?
False dichotomy. The stakes of the second version are the same for the first regardless of union size. There never has been and never will be a guaranteed union campaign until we overthrow capitalism.
Voting against the fascist candidate abso-fucking-lutely prevents fascism. This is an extremely simple concept that one would imagine the founder of the second-largest tech union in North America should be able to wrap their mind around.
I think my point has been missed. The fact that there’s an openly fascist candidate running for president means that fascism is already here and in power.
They’re not in power. But you’re helping them get back in power. If people like you decided to get behind the non-fascist, it would be a non-issue, hence the post.
I can name some of them. You probably recognize them.
- Mike Johnson
- Marjorie Greene
- Mitch McConnell
- Jacob Frey
- Leonard Leo
Nowhere did I say I wasn’t voting. Voting is the least effective method of change that exists, but it’s still a method. I will still be participating because it can lead to minor changes. If you think that defeating fascism can be done by voting once every 4 years however, you will be played.
We are currently in a fascist regime; both parties are heavily lobbied by corporations that dictate policy.
People continue to struggle more and more under both parties, while they play political theater to continue to divide us.
Voting outside the two-party system will help establish that people do have standards when voting.
Voting is one - an important one.
Yes, and a good percentage of the populace decides to stay in and not reward the duopoly with their vote.
Reading comments like this is unbelievably frustrating, because you’re so close to being right, but you refuse to take that next tiny step, which makes you dangerously wrong.
Yes, both parties are lobbied out the ass, it’s bad and it’s wrong, but which party at least tries to mitigate the harm? Yes, there’s unproductive political theater that divides, but which party at least tries to talk about real issues that matter to everyday voters?
Your approach is akin to burning down the house instead of doing the hard work of fixing the roof. You will never get the outcome you imagine by voting for a third party, unless you do the hard work of improving our overall system, from inside the system. You play the game with the team you have, not the team you want.
The problem with this take is that you cannot conversely punish the duopoly by withholding your vote, regardless of whether or not you think they “earned” it. Even if you don’t vote, one of them still gets in. The problem is, the people who are going to vote for the significantly worse of the two options are very motivated to vote, and they will do so.
Yeah. Somehow they think that if they don’t vote- no one gets elected. They don’t understand that a decision will be made without their input.
Or they do, and that’s the entire point.
We are currently in a fascist regime; both parties are heavily lobbied by corporations that dictate policy.
That’s not fascism.
People continue to struggle more and more under both parties, while they play political theater to continue to divide us.
100% people need to engage more. And in national elections quit voting for 3rd parties. Showing solidarity with and not dividing themselves from the rest of the left. Till our voting system is reformed and 3rd party presidential candidates are no longer a mathematical impossibility. With the only message being sent, that you’re safe to ignore.
Voting outside the two-party system will help establish that people do have standards when voting.
That’s literally the exact opposite of what it does.
Yes, and a good percentage of the populace decides to stay in and not reward the duopoly with their vote.
Then they get the lack of change they’ve committed to.
Why is it that any time these pseudo-intellectual “leftists” pop up to spew their bullshit, they’re knocked back by like… 5-10 people that absolutely school them and in the end, all they can respond is-
“Nuh-uhh!”
And then rinse and repeat the following day. What do they think they’re accomplishing? I mean, it’s especially very telling that they’re downvoted into the dark ages on a platform that supposedly leans heavily in their direction.
This says a lot in my opinion. In that there may be hope for lemmy once the election is over and these vapid people eventually collapse in on themselves like a dying star.
THEY ALWAYS COME BACK. But it will be quieter for a year or two. If they’re sincere, and some are. They’re suffering form the same mental weakness/illness that the MAGATS are. They want to believe they are righteous, correct, and in possession of special knowledge or insight. That they believe those that disagree with them can’t comprehend.
If they’re not sincere. Well they’re still like the MAGATS. Malicious, spiteful, and crab mentally. Either hypocritically, simply anti-west like most ML you see. Or benefiting disproportionately on the backs of labor. And know the best way to keep labor down. Is to divide it against itself. Kind of like ML governments do as well.
Lord.
The Lord won’t help us on this one; we need to be the ones to fight for what we demand.
The civil rights movements happened because people were fed up with the status quo.
The presidential election year before the Voting Rights Act of 1965 saw relatively high voter turnout. 61.4%
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voter_turnout_in_United_States_presidential_elections
People voted in the Democratic Party candidate by a wide margin. 61.1%
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1964_United_States_presidential_election
If we protest, but then don’t vote, nothing will change. So voting in records numbers is the answer. Specifically, in our present case, voting for the party that wants to improve things incrementally over fascists.
I see the duopoly as the fascists, though…
Please provide examples to justify your claim. I’d like to know more. I’ll give you your first one since it’s everywhere in the headlines nowadays - weapons to Israel.
Believing in lies doesn’t make them true. The Republicans are fascists who believe immigrants are poisoning the blood of our country and that the genes of people of color predispose them to be criminals. Just because Republicans believe it doesn’t make it true.
https://www.politico.com/news/2024/10/07/trump-immigrants-crime-00182702
Maybe the real fascists were the friends we made along the way
How is giving your vote to whoever becomes the largest by not voting winning anything? You can do all the other things you mentioned and still make a conscious choice to do the least harm by not voting a demagogue in. It’s just one of the many steps you can take as a person wishing to influence the world around you.
Just like eating no meat or less meat. Will it fix everything wrong with farming? No. Does that mean you should just start buying more meat and not eat it, letting it rot in your fridge instead? Also no! No one cares if you did that and it accomplishes nothing except make the problem much worse, which is exactly what not voting gets you.
Again, the duopoly is the staus quo, it will not help fix the systematic problems our society faces.
Then get involved in a 3rd party that works against the republican fascists and coordinates with Democrats for ballot access like WFP.
Whining about “the duopoly” and not voting will just move things further right.
There is the right to cast a vote, also a right to protest.
Please don’t confuse the two and protest by not voting.
Voting and protesting: to create a better society, people need to be willing to demand more than what the status quo can provide.
Heads up. “Left of Shill Stein” is what most know to be called democrats.
4 month old account
Posts nothing but praise for Third Parties/Jill Stein (a known spoiler vote and Russian asset)
Found the Hidden Trump Supporter guys
Nice try.
I know you would rather I vote for Trump than Dr. Jill Stein, but I do not support the duopoly.
A vote for Stein is supporting Trump.
That’s her purpose. She’s nothing but a tool of the right wing. Democrats are left of Jill Stein.
Edit: , -> ;
It seems many of you want third party voters to vote for Trump, but we do not support or vote for the duopoly.
Democrats are left of Jill Stein.
Your political views are skewed; I would double check the records:
Jill Steins platform is nonsense. She has done nothing to accomplish any of it, only shows up for presidential elections, and one of her people literally said that their goal was to try and get Harris to lose battleground states for a Trump win as they know Jill Stein won’t.
Said at a Jill Stein event as part of a speech.
Jill Stein is a tool of the republican party and nothing more.
I suggest you find a third party that isn’t completely garbage.
No one here believes you.
Okay but voting is a group project and everyone I’m partnered with is ignorant and short-sighted.
School really did prepare us for real life in the end
Thems sure done did
None were left behind.
