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I’m never happy and it didn’t turn me into a MAGA dipshit. I don’t think I’m even an asshole most of the time or at least I try not to be.
MAGA is popular for the same reason other nationalist, fascist movements have risen over the course of modern history: as a response to Capitalist decay. MAGA isn’t popular for genetic reasons, intellectual inferiority, or other reasons like that, but as a common class interest.
Fascism is most often represented as an alliance between the Petite Bourgeoisie and Bourgeoisie proper, driven by the Petite Bourgeoisie, as monopolization of Capital results in competition becoming more and more difficult, and the Petite Bourgeoisie faces Proletarianization. To prevent the Petite Bourgeoisie from joining the Proletariat in solidarity, the Bourgeoisie proper turns their hatred against the Proletariat and Lumpenproletariat.
What does this all mean, in practical, American terms? Small business owners, landlords, ie the “middle class,” is shrinking in power, so the Small Business Owners are aligning with billionaires like Musk and Bezos against immigrants, workers, unhoused peopled, gender/sexual minorities, women, ethnic minorities, and more.
How do we fix this? Grow the Petite Bourgeoisie and restore their position? Absolutely not! That’s when fascism is established. Trying to “turn the clock back to the good old days” results in dramatic reductions in worker rights and a solidification of power.
What we need to do is establish Socialism. A victory of the Proletariat, a folding of the large monopolist syndicates into the public sector so they can be centrally planned for the public good, rather than privately planned for profit, is the way forward. This is the way to escape fascism’s rise. This is the way to defeat MAGA. I recommend reading the book Blackshirts and Reds.
This is why the Left always loses.
The Right puts forward a Ronald Reagan or Donald Trump. They give great speeches and stir up people’s emotions. The Left tells people to read a book.
People still talk about Emma Goldman and Rosa Luxemburg because then understood this; they stirred the people up and got them excited.
Instead of suggesting a book, why don’t you try naming an actual candidate that people can vote for? We’re going to have the 2026 election a lot sooner than we’re going to have a Socialist uprising.
Bernie was the candidate to vote for, and look what happened
Bernie was super popular among young voters who were too inconvenienced to actually go out and vote for him.
What happened?
The Left failed to get out and support him 100%. Pete Buttigieg, Warren, and a dozen other candidates split the vote and the regular Dem establishment got the most middle of the road candidate they could.
Which gets back to my original point. Instead of sitting around reading books and arguing about the Third International the Left should be a machine that can get people elected.
Bernie would not have established Socialism either. Even if the DNC was in lock-step with Bernie, Bernie would have established a Social Democracy. Far better for the American people, but it would be a temporary solution just like FDR’s Social Democracy eroded over time.
The book is supplementary to the comment, I explained the big picture in my comment. Blackshirts and Reds isn’t a call to action or an explanation of what to do, but an examination of fascism and Communism, who they served historically, and the material basis for them.
Voting for Harris won’t stop fascism, because it won’t stop Capitalist decay. You can even see her trying to appeal to small business owners, attempting to “turn the clock back,” in her own campaign. Neither will voting for Claudia De La Crúz, PSL’s candidate, nor will Stein, and obviously nor will Trump.
Electoralism cannot solve the conditions giving rise to fascism.
The answer is to join revolutionary orgs like the Party for Socialism and Liberation (PSL) or Freedom Road Socialist Organization (FRSO). Only through organization outside the electoral system does the Proletariat have any hope of steering the ship and seizing the reigns.
The Right puts forward a Ronald Reagan or Donald Trump. They give great speeches and stir up people’s emotions. The Left tells people to read a book.
The US Empire is far-right, they can field candidates supporting the status quo in both the DNC and GOP. Liberalism is the status quo, taught from birth. Leftism requires reading, because they don’t teach it in school, they censor leftism and shun it. It’s a struggle, yes, but it’s a winnable one.
Thanks for proving my point.
I ask for one simple thing; a candidate that I can support. You couldn’t do that one tiny thing.
Why don’t you try actually listening to what people want instead of telling them what they should do?
Take your own advice chump
What a smart way to build a powerful alliance.
Attack someone who posts anything critical instead of even trying to engage.
Do you ever look in a mirror?
If electoralism will not establish Socialism, what is the point of recommending a candidate? The best candidate you can vote for is Claudia De La Crúz, but she can’t get 270 votes to win, because she isn’t on enough state’s ballots. Stein will not establish Socialism, she’s a Social Democrat, and Harris is firmly right-wing. Trump is Trump, obviously he isn’t the answer either.
Your desire for a simple “vote for this person and everything will be alright” does not exist.
The thing is there is nothing actionable at all in that rhetoric. There’s a lot of Marxist jargon and a lament that voting can never work, but the only guidance is “establish socialism” with no suggested actionable moves because we can’t just wave a wand and make that the case. If you can’t envision and recommend a democratic strategy to get there, you aren’t going to get anywhere near your objectives.
The answer is to join revolutionary orgs like the Party for Socialism and Liberation (PSL) or Freedom Road Socialist Organization (FRSO). Only through organization outside the electoral system does the Proletariat have any hope of steering the ship and seizing the reigns.
There is no electoral strategy to get to Socialism because it’s nearly impossible, just like asking the board of directors to hand the reigns of the company to you.
You keep on proving my point.
De La Cruz is unknown to 99.999% of the voters.
AOC, a NY Congress member is known to almost all voters. Everyone has heard of the Squad.
I’ve watched Socialists/Communists talk about the revolution since I was in middle school, and it’s always “just around the corner.”
Like I said, why not try to get some people elected in the next cycle?
Because electoralism cannot establish Socialism. The Squad are not Socialists, they are Social Democrats. The only Socialist you can vote for is Claudia De La Crúz, and she cannot win because she cannot get 270 votes.
I am not “proving your point,” it is physically impossible to do what you’re suggesting.
Guess what? 99.9% of the people in the country would be happy with having FDR’s New Deal back in place.
Again, you prove my point. You’d rather dream about an ideal Socialist state then work to make things better right now.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_complicity_in_Israeli_war_crimes_in_the_Israel–Hamas_war
STOP YANKEE SPAM. NOBODY CARE WHICH WAR CRIMER YOU’RE GONNA PICK THIS TIME. YOUR LIFE DOESN’T WORTH MORE THAN A FOREIGNER.
THROW THE HEADS OF BOTH PARTY IN SUPERMAX AND DROP THE KEY IN THE GREAT CANYON. START OVER. RESPECT GENEVAS CONVENTIONS.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_complicity_in_Israeli_war_crimes_in_the_Israel–Hamas_war
WHEN YOUR COUNTRY IS MORALLY BANKRUPT THE LEAST YOU CAN DO IS NOT FILL THE COMPLETE INTERNET WITH YOUR ELECTION SPAM. SHUT THE FUCK UP.
based
My daughter calls them trumpy grumpies and I thought it was a good name.
my mother who works at a high-class nursery full of milfs, calls them yummy mummies and I think that’s a good name
\end tangent
Never really liked this argument, since it’s not really a contemporary political movement where you just read the policy and go “yup that sounds good”, it’s more akin to a cult with a large indoctrination campaign.
You have alternative news floating around on the same platforms as real ones, you’re told to not believe the “other side” as they’re all in league with one another and always lie, you can have coworkers or your community reinforce these things making it very hard to escape especially if you’ve been a part of it for years. The current ‘liberal politics’ and the living situation doesn’t help either too and does contribute to the general stress that makes people fall down these rabbitholes.
Granted, people who have a lot to benefit from MAGA and are acting as influencers for the movement should be rightfully hated, but not really regular people. I do believe that a lot of people who currently are going to (begrudgingly) vote for democrats could definitely be part of the MAGA cult given different environment (such as work, living area or community they’re part of).
Point is, hate the movement, not the people. While it’s very difficult, it’s possible to deradicalize someone and vilification is not really going to help with that.
Great response. I’m an independent and the loudest voices on the left and the right are hateful but almost none of the people are. This post is just, “hare the right because they hated you first” and that shit gets old and gets us nowhere and widens divides. Oh but election season! The shrieking continues…
Don’t get me wrong, I think that the left/right divide and talking shit about the right are both necessary. There are some right-wingers who aren’t idiots in the world, but most of the right-wing parties nowadays are just spreading hate and endangering certain groups of people while having policies that benefit the top crop.
My comment is about how while MAGA is a hate ideology and should be fought against, the anger shouldn’t be turned into personal attacks against regular people and should be directed towards ideology itself and people who benefit from it. It’s much harder to deprogram someone when the side that tries to deprogram them are actively shunning them on a personal level and calling them inherently terrible people, while it’s likely that the person joined MAGA because of their environment, similar to how religious communities and being born into them work.
i think what you are saying is the thing op in the screenshot also belives in originally. but after doorknocks after doorknocks talking to many people she changed her minds.
I mean outside of the racism, I can see this being applied to liberals too
Care to elaborate?
The moment you understand that MAGA is the party of hate is the moment you understand this election. It explains both Islamic and Latino support for Republicans. They were betrayed by Democrats, and are willing to let the rest of us hang for it. I hope selling out for the center Republicans was worth destroying the demographic coalition.
My wife is Indonesian Muslim, hates Kamala for what we’re doing in Palestine and told me not to vote for her. I’m still voting for Kamala but man that was a hard conversation I never would have expected. Seems like the military owns everything these days
The hard part is, she gets to pick between genocide, and genocide with fewer rights for women.
I don’t understand why she’d pick the latter, but anger does crazy things.
In defense Kamala is actively in power with Biden and has had many chances to voice and make change on this issue and she hasn’t. We know what we will get with Kamala, and it’s a lot like Biden all over again
Well, seeing a lot of the positives Biden has done, or tried to do but the repubs shut down purely out of spite, I’m still fully voting for Kamala.
It’s “I’m fucked” vs “I’m fucked and those that fucked me die too”.
My wife is Indonesian Muslim, hates Kamala for what we’re doing in Palestine and told me not to vote for her. I’m still voting for Kamala
Have you considered having solidarity with your wife? Did you convince her to vote Kamala, or is this still a wedge issue? Or are you not even telling her?
Your copy/pasted comment is telling people to defeat MAGA with socialism. But first let’s get it to hard mode by having MAGAs take over and do Project 2025, right?
A Socialist revolution is “hard mode” whether the Democrats or Republicans are in charge, I don’t know where you’re getting the idea that the establishment parties would be any friendlier or more hostile to a literal revolution.
I also don’t know why you’re saying I am suggesting voting for Trump either, not once have I encouraged it.
Only one of two people will win. You’re asking this person if they considered voting against the less awful choice.
I’m sure we’re both pissed off about how protesters are treated right now. Only one of two parties is saying we need National Guard, deport the protesters, that presidents can execute whomever as an Official Act, that the military should be used against the opposition over speech.
Yeah, so go with your “nach Trump kommen Wir” plan, it will be equally hard to achieve socialism either way, NBD. Not sure why it isn’t, “equally hard either way so let’s pick the ones at least pretending women and LGBT people should have human rights,” but you do you.
I am asking people to listen to directly and indirectly impacted people, rather than thinking they are more “enlightened” than them for voting for the genocidal establishment. Additionally, both parties have been cracking down on pro-Palestinian protestors, Walz even sent in the National Guard after BLM protestors, that’s not a real point.
No, you are deliberately picking which impacted people you want to hear the voices of. Not these ones, huh?
Oof, that must be a weird conversation. Am Indonesian.
Any conversation touching Islam adjacent lost any nuance with the general population more often than not . Not saying your wife is one, but let’s be honest the education quality here is abysmal and at the same time we’re number 1 muslim by population. Also our “Netizen” is notorious for wrongly attacking any issue they misunderstood.
One of our top singer got berated nationwide because she wore a skirt with a random arabic text in it, people thought it was a Holy script and she’s Christian.
I kid you not one election season I saw an angry mob with a banner that said USA = COMMUNIST !!
Most have hard enough time just to get by day to day so I get it, they take anything to blame. With corruption top to bottom it’s a sad state all around. I’m grateful it’s still a relatively peaceful affair though, at least here in Java.
She understands that Trump would actively get on the ground and help the IDF out if he could, right?
Lmao you are a scum. You’d rather trust the party of genocide than your own wife. How trashy is this.
Leave the poor woman seriously.
No offense.
They’re both the party of genocide. No matter what, your next president does genocide. Your vote helps decide which you get to protest under.
The rest of the world is looking at the US with contempt right now. Far-right germany, britains and the aussies are the only allies you have left. Fuck you.
But you won’t. Nobody’s accountable. Nobody was accountable for iraq. Nobody was accountable for lybia. Your country lies and lies and you’re too cowardy to face the criminals unless they are poor ghettos black people. They can create war out of lies and destroy countless lives, not only are they free but they get media attention to endorse whichever warcrimers gonna suck dicks next.
You make me sick.
Not a yank. Don’t care. Too late anyway the damage is done I hope you guys pays for the support for genocide.
Trump is coming for your country next.
It’s gonna get harder. Especially if you guys have kids.
It’s the dixiecrats after we took the one thing they loved: Jim Crow and their ability to be superior to anyone who isn’t white.
We even dared to elect a black person president over them, they will NEVER forgive us for that, it went against everything they believe in.
You don’t understand, to them this is justice for our unimaginable crimes against them, we took the only thing they had in life.
And that’s how the orange turd built a cult…but constantly whining and complaining when Obama was elected. 8 years of slowly stroking the flames, birther crap, pointing out every single minor inconvenience and a failure of the president.
Would be kinda funny to double down and elect a black woman next. Bet they would just love that.
Wait, isn’t she Indian? Did she just BECOME black?
/s
God I hope we get there…
Yes that explains the South and the Aryan Nations in the NW. They were a given in this scenario. I have plenty of experience and a little too much understanding of both.
Party of Hate. For them it’s racial, religious, and cultural.
dumb people shouldn’t participate in society. no one is ever going to legislate that. it’s up to us to make sure they don’t.
Define dumb, otherwise I’ll start by saying it’s the people who don’t capitalize words
There isn’t really agreement on who is too shitty to “participate in society”, whatever that means. And if you build a mechanism to exclude people, assholes will use it for evil.
But like if I had a magic wand I would remove all republicans from power. They make it easy by self identifying as shitheads.
gang i think some percentage of the FREE CITIZENS OF THE COLONIAL SLAVERY EMPIRE might be violently bigoted
when they were knocking doors did they check with anybody who the slave empire has imprisoned or any of the folks that don’t have doors
they are selfish.
That’s where all of those symptoms stem from.
selfish greed.
MAGA is popular for the same reason other nationalist, fascist movements have risen over the course of modern history: as a response to Capitalist decay. MAGA isn’t popular for genetic reasons, intellectual inferiority, or other reasons like that, but as a common class interest. All of the descriptors in the OP are consequences of the driving factor of class interests, not the drivers themselves.
Fascism is most often represented as an alliance between the Petite Bourgeoisie and Bourgeoisie proper, driven by the Petite Bourgeoisie, as monopolization of Capital results in competition becoming more and more difficult, and the Petite Bourgeoisie faces Proletarianization. To prevent the Petite Bourgeoisie from joining the Proletariat in solidarity, the Bourgeoisie proper turns their hatred against the Proletariat and Lumpenproletariat.
What does this all mean, in practical, American terms? Small business owners, landlords, ie the “middle class,” is shrinking in power, so the Small Business Owners are aligning with billionaires like Musk and Bezos against immigrants, workers, unhoused peopled, gender/sexual minorities, women, ethnic minorities, and more.
How do we fix this? Grow the Petite Bourgeoisie and restore their position? Absolutely not! That’s when fascism is established. Trying to “turn the clock back to the good old days” results in dramatic reductions in worker rights and a solidification of power.
What we need to do is establish Socialism. A victory of the Proletariat, a folding of the large monopolist syndicates into the public sector so they can be centrally planned for the public good, rather than privately planned for profit, is the way forward. This is the way to escape fascism’s rise. This is the way to defeat MAGA.
I recommend reading the book Blackshirts and Reds, fascism’s irrationality has rational, material origins, that can be understood and defeated, and it isn’t in the “marketplace of ideas.”
That’s a modern take that doesn’t really hold up to any scrutiny since there was conservatism before capitalism.
It’s a convenient rallying cry of people who prefer socialism as they understand it, but the direct comparison doesn’t hold any historical water.
mega fits into capitalism and socialist. I think they’re such broad concepts, but definitely not the instigating concepts of fascism are conservatism.
I remember that book, it’s older right? I read it in college or high school at some point.
Conservativism isn’t the same as fascism. Reactionary movements have existed in every form of Class Society, when Capitalism overtook Feudalism it was the holdover Monarchist movements. It isn’t a “convenient rallying cry,” but an analysis of reactionary vs progressive social movements driven by class interests.
mega fits into capitalism and socialist
I have no idea what this means. Why do you think MAGA is Socialist?
I remember that book, it’s older right? I read it in college or high school at some point.
Written in the 90s, you should revisit it.
“Reactionary movements have existed in every form of Class Society, when Capitalism overtook Feudalism it was the holdover Monarchist movements.”
and before class society!
"an analysis of reactionary vs progressive social movements driven by class interests. "
blaming capitalism for literally everything, especially in a meme, is simple aggressive fomenting.
superficial demonization encourages a riot, not a movement, although it’s easy to confuse the two when your blood is pumping and everyone around you is screaming the same facile slogan.
and before class society!
What “reactionary” movements existed in tribal societies devoid of distinct classes?
blaming capitalism for literally everything, especially in a meme, is simple aggressive fomenting.
I blame Capitalism for Capitalism’s issues, not literally everything.
superficial demonization encourages a riot, not a movement, although it’s easy to confuse the two when your blood is pumping and everyone around you is screaming the same facile slogan.
I have no idea what point you’re actually making.
Lots of them are, but it’s stupid comments like this which make me shake my head. The left will lose 2024 with their fake moral superiority and fail to understand what happened.
Again.
get your maga out of here.
*The left will lose 2024 with their fake moral superiority…"
it is not a fake moral superiority, the left has a practical moral superiority demonstrated by material policy that positively affects the lives of people.
The left beat you in 2020 because of their tangible moral superiority by providing civil protections and material assets for the rights of the electorate.
conservatives are legally trying and succeeding in stealing the rights, liberties and property of Americans.
Americans don’t like that, and voted to the left.
they’re fighting back by prosecuting and removing the selfish conservatives who are harming people, and are creating laws and funds protecting everyone,
civil rights are not a “fake” moral superiority, they are a tangible moral superiority effected through practical, respectful policy.
Call me a white winger again and I’m flying to america cunt. Im gonna beat you up you hear me you stupid twat. Fuck you. I hope your mum gets cancer, retard. I’m challenge you to a duel, you hear me?
The yanks care a lot about THEIR civil rights and legality as long as there’s no money to be made. When it comes to bombing civilians from other country, well, tough shit.
Logged into the wrong account? Hard to keep track, eh?
What? I don’t really have an account I only create a few throwaways when I want to puke on yanks. Dirty race they are.
The smug feeling of moral superiority and the continuous willingness to correct the other’s behaviour is THE reason why people can’t stand “left/wokism/whatever”. Continously pointing out on fake “offensive words” just to show off how morally superior they are.
That how it looks from outside.
(For context i am not American and don’t guve a fuck about orange man neither for so called “christian values” so don’t try to paint me as a conservative MAGA supporter.)
So you think that being an asshole and holding the country hostage is a reasonable response to being scolded? Like a literal fucking toddler?
“moral superiority and the continuous willingness to correct the other’s behaviour”
it is tangible practical moral superiority coming from the protection and support of civil rights and liberty.
rather than taking away employee rights, the left is giving employees rights.
rather than taking away minority rights, the left is legally protecting minority rights.
those are not imaginary feelings, those are practical and effective policies.
"The smug feeling of moral superiority and the continuous willingness to correct the other’s behaviour is THE reason why people can’t stand “left/wokism/whatever”. Continously pointing out on fake “offensive words” just to show off how morally superior they are. "
this is largely your imagination and pointed conservative media and a poor excuse for selfish people to continue abusing vulnerable people for their own gain.
offensive words are not fake, and there’s nothing wrong with being considerate toward everyone.
the fact that you don’t understand haven’t considered the difference between protected civil liberties and imaginary fake word hunts from the left (that are actually perpetrated by conservatives banning books from libraries) demonstrates exactly how successful the conservative media you consume is.
consider what you’re saying, consider the information around you.
anybody accusing the left of instigating moral panics while the right is literally banning books in libraries over words that they don’t like or understand clearly doesn’t have even the most tenuous comprehension of what is really happening.
The oldest human need politicians learned to exploit since before villages became a thing, I think.
‘Apes together strong’ was a message from nerds, not politicians, imo.
A lot of them feel betrayed/wronged by the system, or by lleft leaning/progressive politics.
That’s why they don’t mind Trump’s wrongdoings. They see things like his felony mugshot and think “he’s been betrayed and attacked by the system just like me!”…
…a lot of it is emotional for them, and it’s a difficult mindset they’re unlikely to leave behind.
Still at least it’s a better ratio than in places like Israel, where the vast majority of the population are far-right (many of whom are conspiracy theory inclined, particularly when it comes to the assassination of their former PM Yitzhak Rabin).
That scene gets more and more perfect every year. Tho the worst morons dont actually work or live on the land, they live in the suburbs and drive around in their monster trucks that have never been off road or hauled jack shit in the beds
I am so, so glad Democrats have finally woken up to the fact that Republicans are not just misinformed Democrats. There’s no amount of facts we can throw at them to make them stop being terrible people. They’re not going to suddenly go “oh my God, I was wrong!” This is who they are.
They’re dixiecrats, they used to be the worst part of the democrats before LBJ dared to sign civil rights, an unforgivable sin.
A basketful of deplorables, as it were.
My take is that with Harris courting endorsements from many formerly rank-and-file Republicans, this drives the point home. If anybody is still confused that Trump’s party is VERY different from what the Republican Party used to be, the Cheney’s endorsing her should settle that. Anybody still unconvinced is wilfully ignorant at minimum.
If anybody is still confused that Trump’s party is VERY different from what the Republican Party used to be, the Cheney’s endorsing her should settle that.
And then you have the braindead .MLs who argue that awful people supporting the normal candidate over the fascist means we really need to rethink our support for the normal candidate 🙄
I’ve gotten a disturbing number of messages on grindr from men that are hard core right wing, yet are on a gay dating app. The level of hate, ignorance, and cognitive dissonance is unprecedented. And it’s all fueled by highly addictive apps, and pumped at unimaginable scales thanks to AI.
I hate to say it, but I think this really is the end.
nah. at any given time, we (the good guys) can easily defeat the bad guys. it’s pretty fucking simple. you just have to organize, understand the problem, and be willing to think outside the box.
i think we’ve just been using the wrong tools. i think all we really need is encrypted messaging and [redacted].
