- cross-posted to:
- [email protected]
- cross-posted to:
- [email protected]
You must log in or register to comment.
Holy shit that got spicy. I was not expecting a Ukrainian and a Serb to start bickering back and forth while stacking racks over the level of support a country gave to the Nazis in WW2 on a kernel mailing list like they were in the comments here on Lemmy.
I get that tensions are high, and for many people the geopolitical reality is their homes being used as cover on an active front line, but like bro your actual fucking name is attached to these messages. At least I keep my most unhinged shit on a semi-anonymous platform. They need to lock it the fuck up.
Edit - jfc, a few messages later somebody comes in with something along the lines of “Taiwan isn’t a country, it’s part of China. When reunification comes sanctions won’t be appropriate against Chinese entities.” Is Lemmy just a front end for this mailing list and I had no idea this entire time?
I thought you were joking, but yup they actually started quizzing eachother on WW2.
It’s not the end of Linux by any means, but that’s gonna be hard to work together afterwards
Jeeeeez that was a lot. I get the sense that the kernel has worked as well as it has because people saw it as separate from geopolitics and so didnt discuss them…now that politics has wedged its way in I feel like it may have opened that door permanently.
I’m optimistic, since technical arguments can be pretty heated yet they end like this:
At least I keep my most unhinged shit on a semi-anonymous platform.
🔥
this is great 🍿🍿🍿
Not even Taiwan claims to be a country though. They claim to be the sole legitimate government of China, hence their actual name, The Republic Of China, and not “republic of taiwan” or some other thing.
While it was true for a long time, I don’t think Taiwan expects to get China back anymore. It’s more not to start WW3 for the last 30+ years
Not even Taiwan claims to be a country though. They claim to be the sole legitimate government of China, hence their actual name, The Republic Of China,
Isn’t that, by definition, calling yourself a country?
Wrong phrasing on my part.
No matter which side you ask, the Republic Of China (ROC) or the People’s Republic of China (PRC) Taiwan isn’t a country, it is a region of the country of China. Saying that Taiwan is a country satisfies neither the ROC nor the PRC’s claims
That’s why what Linus said was stupid when he brought WWII into this conversation…
They are not wrong though Taiwan isn’t a country. They have never declared independence their government has never officially given up their claim of being the rightful ruler of China. I have no idea why none of these have not been done.
Because China has always held it would start a full-scale invasion if they ever did. So everyone ignores the elephant and keeps the status quo…
deleted by creator
If you think kernel maintainers are ‘techbros’ then you dont really understand that term
does anyone?
if you live in the bay area, youd understand who works in tech, and whose a tech bro, very easily.
Living and working in silicon valley for 20 years and then moving to Austin and then Chicago has shown me the reality of how much of a bubble that the Bay Area is.
Nothing translates and tech bro there has a VERY different meaning outside of it.
No
if you live in the bay area, youd understand who works in tech, and whose a tech bro, very easily.
deleted by creator
That applies to most of the drama surrounding Linux.
It would probably be more controversial if Linus had given more professional commentary.
It is not good for the kernel and it’s team to suddenly have to kowtow to Usamerican politics.
The reality is that the Linux Foundation is in the United States, and Linus is a naturalized US citizen who lives in Oregon (at least on Wikipedia). So they both will have to pay attention to avoid transacting business with individuals and companies on the SDN list. That is the law in the United States.
What an extremely dangerous place to domicile such an important project.
Maybe it’s time to fork the Linux Foundation and fix those two problems.
And it can cost you up to 30 years for breaking it. I’d listen to my lawyers too.
Kreg moved to Europe, last I heard. So at least the heir apparent is in a region with better potential international diplomacy and neutrality.
Inheritance wars wasn’t something on my FOSS list…
Western Europe has committed to making itself an American dependency. This same thing would eventually repeat there but with different aesthetics.
Would a fork be the solution to avoid having a system that is crucial for people worldwide cease to be a weapon at the hands of merrican politicians?
It’ll be at the hands of whatever jurisdiction the forker is in. It’s not like you can escape governments.
brazilian linux fork when?
I’m afraid that if the sanctions will continue to be a go-to method of dealing with geopolitical rivals, we may end up with a few divergent forks. One for US and “the west” block, one for Chinese comrades with their junior Russian partners, and maybe one for Indian code gurus who don’t like both sides and have capable engineering resources themselves.
Could be. Maybe not a hard fork, if this slap fight can be contained in the driver space. I’d keep an eye on OpenHarmony and OpenKylin.
Thank you for that! I was perplexed since I’ve been in the Linux space for 25 years and I was thinking that I would have to switch to bsd.
If you think BSDs are devoid of drama you’re in for a cold shower…
Switch to OpenBSD if you have to, at least the drama there is super funny
I was thinking that I would have to switch to bsd.
Finally the year of Hurd on the desktop?
Doesn’t free BSD not allow anyone with a Chinese or Russian sounding name already.
I’m afraid that if the sanctions will continue to be a go-to method of dealing with geopolitical rivals, we may end up with a few divergent forks. One for US and “the west” block, one for […]
Considering that that this idea of making a Linux for the US vs a Linux for “the rest of the world” was what made me ditch Fedora for Debian, it’d be a shame to have it happen to Linux as well. Like, sure, an alternative will emerge, but where does one go while that progresses to be daily-driver? Haiku?
Real question: does India contribute anything to the kernel?
This kind of thing is the inevitable outcome of US policy to “decouple”, which they are pushing. Take something they nominally control, kick out every designated enemy / enemy collaborator, and then watch as an alternative pops up among the " enemy" and ban its purchase or use.
Would a fork be technically viable if Americans and American businesses can’t participate (because the fork works with SDN entities)? Maybe.
I’m guessing most IoT devices are made in China (or increasingly Southeast Asia), so yes.
Sure for not but it we’ll go nowhere. Most of the kernel developers are paid developers it’s not somebody working on it in there free time.
Then they should try to free themselves from it.
And governments should wise up and exempt them from any kind of petty stuff.
In the balance between geopolitical conflicts and Linux, the latter is the petty stuff.
This is not something that needs balance.
And they have quite different kinds of petty:
When Linus gets petty, then there’s a proper rant, somebody gets red in the face (but you don’t get to see the pics), and some news interns can write headlines.
When politicians get petty, then people in foreign countries are killed.
And it can cost you up to 30 years for breaking it. I’d listen to my lawyers too.
Suddenly? Linux entities have always had to follow the rules of the country they exist in. A kernel isn’t a sovereign nation no matter how loud the what-about army becomes.
What were Linus comments that precipitated this?
The rage comes from LF actions and Linus words. All they had to do was to say: Thank you people for your contribution but we have no other choice, this is the law. But they did quite the opposite and Linus showed his true ugly white western supremacy face for all to see. That is the cause of the rage.
Ok, lots of Russian trolls out and about.
It’s entirely clear why the change was done, it’s not getting reverted, and using multiple random anonymous accounts to try to “grass root” it by Russian troll factories isn’t going to change anything.
And FYI for the actual innocent bystanders who aren’t troll farm accounts - the “various compliance requirements” are not just a US thing.
If you haven’t heard of Russian sanctions yet, you should try to read the news some day. And by “news”, I don’t mean Russian state-sponsored spam.
As to sending me a revert patch - please use whatever mush you call brains. I’m Finnish. Did you think I’d be *supporting* Russian aggression? Apparently it’s not just lack of real news, it’s lack of history knowledge too.No clue how all this shakes out. Not real invested in this ideological/bureaucratic slap fight.
It’s always entertaining when Linus flames off.
When Linus becomes entertaining is when he is not doing his job properly.
Given how used I am to every statement by a politician or business being this slick, polished, carefully re-drafted beige speech it’s a real contrast to see someone like Torvalds just blasting out their thoughts
https://www.phoronix.com/news/Linus-Torvalds-Russian-Devs
tl;dr: anyone who disagrees is a russian troll or a useful idiot, according to the linux man
Removed by mod
Damn there are a surprising number of maintainers that are comrades and not taking this lying down from the western supremacist cohort.
Linus opened up a massive can of worms and turned this into a geopolitical conflict by acting like a baby.
This comment by Hantong Chen is great:
Hi James,
Here’s what Linus has said, and it’s more than just “sanction.”
Moreover, we have to remove any maintainers who come from the following countries or regions, as they are listed in Countries of Particular Concern and are subject to impending sanctions:
- Burma, People’s Republic of China, Cuba, Eritrea, Iran, the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea, Nicaragua, Pakistan, Russia, Saudi Arabia, Tajikistan, and Turkmenistan.
- Algeria, Azerbaijan, the Central African Republic, Comoros, and Vietnam.
For People’s Republic of China, there are about 500 entities that are on the U.S. OFAC SDN / non-SDN lists, especially HUAWEI, which is one of the most active employers from versions 5.16 through 6.1, according to statistics. This is unacceptable, and we must take immediate action to address it, with the same reason.
Meh, if they really leave this will prompt the US government or corps to finally start paying these developers. This flare up is a blessing in disguise.
Wait until you find out how much of Linux the NSA has built.
Next to none. You’re just spreading FUD.
selinux is one example.
They haven’t been involved with that for years and it’s open source so it’s as likely to have a backdoor as any other part of the code.
The NSA also created tor
Wasn’t Huawei trying to put a Backdoor into linux?
If yes, I see why they finally want to restrict maintainers to countries they can trust
Wasn’t Huawei trying to put a Backdoor into linux?
as far as i know, that has not happened.
what makes you think it did?
Removed by mod
Articles back in the days.
I found a random one now. Maybe I got just clickbaited with titles back then. I dunno
https://securityboulevard.com/2020/12/was-this-huaweis-failed-attempt-at-a-linux-backdoor/
Funny that blog calls it a “failed attempt at a backdoor” while neglecting to mention that the grsec post (which it does link to and acknowledges is the source of the story) had been updated months prior to explicitly refute that characterization:
5/22/2020 Update: This kind of update should not have been necessary, but due to irresponsible journalists and the nature of social media, it is important to make some things perfectly clear:
Nowhere did we claim this was anything more than a trivially exploitable vulnerability. It is not a backdoor or an attempted backdoor, the term does not appear elsewhere in this blog at all; any suggestion of the sort was fabricated by irresponsible journalists who did not contact us and do not speak for us.
There is no chance this code would have passed review and be merged. No one can push or force code upstream.
This code is not characteristic of the quality of other code contributed upstream by Huawei. Contrary to baseless assertions from some journalists, this is not Huawei’s first attempt at contributing to the kernel, in fact they’ve been a frequent contributor for some time.
Damn, I have been thinking bad about them for too long for shitty journalism
This will be a nothing burger in 6 months
After Linus’ statement, I can’t be sure any more that Linux is free of NSA code… Sad times…
Dude, it’s common knowledge that NSA has contributed significant portions of (security related) code to the kernel. No tin foil hat required.
They also tried to put weak encryption in the kernel once.
I’m convinced that they did it under the radar.
Well it’s open source so you can check.
You mean like SELinux or other existing contributions to the linux kernel?
Just so odd how they went about the whole thing. Such an uncalculated way to do things.
Why not wait until you have all your explanations in order backed by lawyers before doing the release? Why did they shit on the carpet first and then explained their reasons afterwards after lots of horrible attempts at justifications that completely missed the point.
That’s Linus for you. He’s extremely misanthropic. This isn’t his first PR fuck up. Except this time his abrasiveness triggered an international incident.
It’s blatantly obvious and non-controversial what they’re doing. That’s why.
Someone has forked Linux https://github.com/Cqinux/cinux
Linus Torvalds has been sold out to big tech companies like Google and Microsoft. He himself is a billionaire and no longer writes any code.
I can’t take that seriously
Yeah a dozen or so commits updating readme files isn’t exactly compelling stuff. Any of us could do this in five minutes on GitHub.
Still hosted on GitHub, a property of MicroSoft.
That’s because it’s pure bullshit. And this repo will be deleted or abandoned in a month.
Any bets on how likely that this is even maintained six months from now?
Six months don’t even give it a month. I don’t think most people want to admit how many kernel devs are paid devs. Nobody is doing all this work for free people need a home and food.
Doesn’t Linux already have a bunch of forks? I’m using the CachyOS kernel, for example
deleted by creator
Relevant, maintained? Zero.
At least one for each manufacturer that uses it under the hood in a Tivo-like manner
🤣🤣🤣
