One thing that might help it feel less strange is realising that you already use a grammatically plural pronoun to refer to individuals all the time: the word “you”. It’s always “you are tall”, not “you is tall”, same as “we” or “they” instead of “he” or “she”. This is because it was historically plural, and “thou” was the singular. Over time we started using the plural to be more polite, and then eventually always using it.
The conjugation of Be, “is” is not used in the second person (you, be it singular or plural) any more than “am” is (“am” is first person singular form.) regardless of the plurality (or lack thereof) in the subject.
The correct Be conjugations for second person subjects are “art” (2nd, singular, archaic) and “are”.
Do you remember your conjugation tables from Spanish or French class?
English has them too, but the modern ones are much smaller than most (all?) other European languages.
Editted in:
Prn. | To be | note
I am 1st person (the speaker) singular.
We are 1st person plural.
Thou art 2nd person (the one being spoken to) singular (archaic).
You are 2nd plural and singular.
(s)he /it is 3rd person (neither the speaker or spoken to) singular.
They are 3rd plural and singular
I think because it’s so small for English and because I’m a native speaker it’s all just second nature and I don’t really know the technicalities. Conjugating verbs in Spanish is one of my most frustrating areas of learning lol.
Yeah, it’s only really “Be” and “have” that have any conjugation variety in English, and then the old 3rd singular +s and past tense and participles.
Since most English speakers don’t learn much grammar it can be tricky.
A few lessons on English grammar would probably make learning a second language much easier.
To convey uncertainty, because the dictionary classification of the word was a bit of a mouthful, and I was only 90% certain that I was interpreting it correctly.
It only feels strange because of how it’s been used previously in my lifetime, not from historical usage. But as you’ve shown, language changes over time, and not having a singular neutral pronoun has proven to be a big omission in English (since “they” has only traditionally been used that way in certain limited cases). If it was good enough for “you,” it’s good enough for “they!”
One thing that might help it feel less strange is realising that you already use a grammatically plural pronoun to refer to individuals all the time: the word “you”. It’s always “you are tall”, not “you is tall”, same as “we” or “they” instead of “he” or “she”. This is because it was historically plural, and “thou” was the singular. Over time we started using the plural to be more polite, and then eventually always using it.
“Thou is tall” sounds weird though.
This made my brain short circuit lol. Can’t believe I never noticed.
That’s because “is” is the third person conjugation of Be, not the second. Of course it sounds weird.
“Thou are”, and the actually correct “thou art” both feel much more natural.
But we’re back to plural, they said thou is singular.
The conjugation of Be, “is” is not used in the second person (you, be it singular or plural) any more than “am” is (“am” is first person singular form.) regardless of the plurality (or lack thereof) in the subject.
The correct Be conjugations for second person subjects are “art” (2nd, singular, archaic) and “are”.
So is thou/you plural or singular? I’m very confused. I’m not a grammar person lol. This conversation began because someone said thou is singular.
Thou is singular and you is plural. Thou art. You are.
Do you remember your conjugation tables from Spanish or French class?
English has them too, but the modern ones are much smaller than most (all?) other European languages.
Editted in:
Prn. | To be | note I am 1st person (the speaker) singular.
We are 1st person plural.
Thou art 2nd person (the one being spoken to) singular (archaic).
You are 2nd plural and singular.
(s)he /it is 3rd person (neither the speaker or spoken to) singular.
They are 3rd plural and singular
I think because it’s so small for English and because I’m a native speaker it’s all just second nature and I don’t really know the technicalities. Conjugating verbs in Spanish is one of my most frustrating areas of learning lol.
Yeah, it’s only really “Be” and “have” that have any conjugation variety in English, and then the old 3rd singular +s and past tense and participles.
Since most English speakers don’t learn much grammar it can be tricky. A few lessons on English grammar would probably make learning a second language much easier.
Yeah but that’s because you see it in archaic contexts. How do you feel about ‘thou art tall’?
But art sounds like are. Is art singular?
From the dictionary: (archaic) second-person singular simple present indicative of be
So, yes?
Why the question mark?
To convey uncertainty, because the dictionary classification of the word was a bit of a mouthful, and I was only 90% certain that I was interpreting it correctly.
It’s “thee is tall.”
He, she, thee.
Ahhh, that makes so much more sense.
No, that’s incorrect.
It’s “Thou are tall” or “Thou art tall”
Nominative Oblique Possessive Thou Thee Thy/Thine* I Me My/Mine* He Him His She Her Her/Hers** You You Your/Yours*** Used as an object (It is thine) or historically, when the following word started in the vowel (Thine eyes sparkle like diamonds, Mine ears ache)
** Used as an object (it is hers)
Yes I too, read the Wikipedia entry for thou/thee.
Are the Outlander writers just dumb or something then? Or is what you’re referring to (“thou art”) just a different context.
Because in Outlander, the quakers clearly use “thee is” and not “thou art/are”.
Because they use it as the second person singular.
Minor spoilers for latest season of Outlander
Thee is a wolf
I’m joining in the “this blew my mind” sentiment and just want to say thanks for sharing this tidbit of info.
Thee has had thee mind blown?
It only feels strange because of how it’s been used previously in my lifetime, not from historical usage. But as you’ve shown, language changes over time, and not having a singular neutral pronoun has proven to be a big omission in English (since “they” has only traditionally been used that way in certain limited cases). If it was good enough for “you,” it’s good enough for “they!”
source, with full text (via)