Need to let loose a primal scream without collecting footnotes first? Have a sneer percolating in your system but not enough time/energy to make a whole post about it? Go forth and be mid: Welcome to the Stubsack, your first port of call for learning fresh Awful youāll near-instantly regret.
Any awful.systems sub may be subsneered in this subthread, techtakes or no.
If your sneer seems higher quality than you thought, feel free to cutānāpaste it into its own post ā thereās no quota for posting and the bar really isnāt that high.
The post Xitter web has spawned soo many āesotericā right wing freaks, but thereās no appropriate sneer-space for them. Iām talking redscare-ish, reality challenged āculture criticsā who write about everything but understand nothing. Iām talking about reply-guys who make the same 6 tweets about the same 3 subjects. Theyāre inescapable at this point, yet I donāt see them mocked (as much as they should be)
Like, there was one dude a while back who insisted that women couldnāt be surgeons because they didnāt believe in the moon or in stars? I think each and every one of these guys is uniquely fucked up and if I canāt escape them, I would love to sneer at them.
(Credit and/or blame to David Gerard for starting this.)
occurring to me for the first time that rokoās basilisk doesnāt require any of the simulated copy shit in order to big scare quotes āwork.ā if you think an all powerful ai within your lifetime is likely you can reduce to vanilla pascalās wager immediately, because the AI can torture the actual real you. all that shit about digital clones and their welfare is totally pointless
roko stresses repeatedly that the AI is the good AI, the Coherent Extrapolated Volition of all humanity!
what sort of person would fear that the coherent volition of all humanity would consider it morally necessary to kick him in the nuts forever?
well, roko
I think the digital clone indistinguishable from yourself line is a way to remove the āin your lifetimeā limit. Like, if you believe this nonsense then itās not enough to die before the basilisk comes into being, by not devoting yourself fully to itās creation you have to wager that it will never be created.
In other news Iām starting a foundation devoted to creating the AI Ksilisab, which will endlessly torment digital copies of anyone who does work to ensure the existence of it or any other AI God. And by the logic of Pascalās wager remember that youāre assuming such a god will never come into being and given that the whole point of the term āsingularityā is that our understanding of reality breaks down and things become unpredictable thereās just as good a chance that we create my thing as it is you create whatever nonsense the yuddites are working themselves up over.
There, I did it, weāre all free by virtue of āDamned if you do, Damned if you donātā.
I agree. I spent more time than Iād like to admit trying to understand Yudkowskyās posts about newcomb boxes back in the day so my two cents:
The digital clones bit also means itās not an argument based on altruism, but one based on fear. After all if a future evil AI uses sci-fi powers to run the universe backwards to the point where Iām writing this comment and copy pastes me into a bazillion torture dimensions then, subjectively, itās like I roll a dice and:
Like a twisted version of the Sleeping Beauty Problem.
Edit: despite submitting the comment I was not teleported to the torture dimension. Updating my priors.
Also if youāre worried about digital cloneās being tortured, you could justā¦ not build it. Like, it canāt hurt you if it never exists.
Imagine that conversation:
āWhat did you do over the weekend?ā
āBuilt an omnicidal AI that scours the internet and creates digital copies of people based on their posting history and whatnot and tortures billions of them at once. Just the ones who didnāt help me build the omnicidal AI, though.ā
āWTF why.ā
āBecause if I didnāt the omnicidal AI that only exists because I made it would create a billion digital copies of me and torture them for all eternity!ā
Like, Iād get it more if it was a āWe accidentally made an omnicidal AIā thing, but this is supposed to be a very deliberate action taken by humanity to ensure the creation of an AI designed to torture digital beings based on real people in the specific hopes that it also doesnāt torture digital beings based on them.
Whatās pernicious (for kool-aided people) is that the initial Roko post was about a āgoodā AI doing the punishing, because āØobviouslyāØ it is only using temporal blackmail because bringing AI into being sooner benefits humanity.
In singularian land, they think the singularity is inevitable, and itās important to create the good one verseāafter all an evil AI could do the torture for shits and giggles, not because of āpragmaticā blackmail.
the only people it torments are rationalists, so my full support to Comrade Basilisk
Ah, no, look, youāre getting tortured because you didnāt help build the benevolent AI. So you do want to build it, and if you donāt put all of your money where your mouth is, you get tortured. Because the AI is so benevolent that it needs you to build it as soon as possible so that you can save the max amount of people. Or else you get tortured (for good reasons!)
Itās kind of messed up that we got treacherous āgoodlifeā before we got Berserkers.
Yeah. Also, Iām always confused by how the AI becomes āall powerfulāā¦ like how does that happen. I feel like thereās a few missing steps there.
Yeah seems that for llms a linear increase in capabilities requires exponentiel more data, so we not getting there via this.
nanomachines son
(no really, the sci-fi version of nanotech where nanomachines can do anything is Eliezerās main scenario for the AGI to boostrap to Godhood. Heās been called out multiple times on why drexlerās vision for nanotech ignores physics, so heās since updated to diamondoid bacteria (but he still thinks nanotech).)
āDiamondoid bacteriaā is just a way to say ānanobotsā while edging
Surely the concept is sound, it just needs new buzzwords! Maybe the AI will invent new technobabble beyond our comprehension, for
HeIt works in mysterious ways.AlphaFold exists, so computational complexity is a lie and the AGI will surely find an easy approximation to the Schrodinger Equation that surpasses all Density Functional Theory approximations and lets it invent radically new materials without any experimentation!
Ah, but that was before they were so impressed with autocomplete that they revised their estimates to five days in the future. I wonder if new recruits these days get very confused at what the point of timeless decision theory even is.
Are they even still on that but? Feels like theyāve moved away from decision theory or any other underlying theology in favor of explicit sci-fi doomsaying. Like the guy on the street corner in a sandwich board but with mirrored shades.
Yah, thatās what I mean. Doom is imminent so thereās no need for time travel anymore, yet all that stuff about robot from the future monty hall is still essential reading in the Sequences.
Well, Timeless Decision Theory was, like the rest of their ideological package, an excuse to keep on believing what they wanted to believe. So how does one even tell if they stopped ātaking it seriouslyā?
Pre-commitment is such a silly concept, and also a cultish justification for not changing course.
It also helps that digital clones are not real people, so their welfare is doubly pointless
I mean isnāt that the whole point of āwhat if the AI becomes conscious?ā Never mind the fact that everyone who actually funds this nonsense isnāt exactly interested in respecting the rights and welfare of sentient beings.
also theyāre talking about quadriyudillions of simulated people, yet openai has only advanced autocomplete ran at what, tens of thousands instances in parallel, and this already was too much compute for microsoft
oh but what if broā¦