• barsoap@lemm.ee
        19·
        6 days ago

        Damn hack journalists. It was popularised by Petra Kelly (page 768, 82 in pdf) founding member of the German Greens:

        But when the laws of the state are in open rebellion against divine law, … then resistance is a duty, but obedience is a crime.

        …she was dishing it out with the CDU that’s why she quoted a Pope, in particular Pope Leo XIII, in 1890:

        1. But, if the laws of the State are manifestly at variance with the divine law, containing enactments hurtful to the Church, or conveying injunctions adverse to the duties imposed by religion, or if they violate in the person of the supreme Pontiff the authority of Jesus Christ, then, truly, to resist becomes a positive duty, to obey, a crime

        It then percolated through general Green-adjacent political spheres as a slogan and became “Wenn Unrecht zu Recht wird, dann wird Widerstand zur Pflicht”, “When injustice becomes law, then resistance becomes duty”, losing the “and obedience a crime” part. Usually attributed to Brecht, who probably wouldn’t mind, totally something he’d say. “I can’t eat enough for as much as I want to barf” isn’t Brecht, either, it’s Dürrenmatt. Actual Brecht quotes include “Who does not know the truth is just an idiot, but who knows the truth and calls it a lie is a criminal” as well as “First comes fodder, then morals”. Also, movie recommendation.

        • rottingleaf@lemmy.world
          3·
          7 days ago

          In any case, a good rule.

          Try telling it to people with relatives\connections behind government desks, even small ones. They immediately either have this absent look as if they are calculating with effort how to best hurt you, or the absolutely hateful look as if no piece of you should exist.

          That kind of reaction (EDIT: being so prevalent among that group of people) alone hints that today’s state bureaucracies have overstayed their welcome.

  • NoMadLadNZ@lemmy.nzEnglish
    641·
    7 days ago

    This is how the brownshirts operated. Just thugs, power trippin’, and attracting the absolute worst people who WANT to wear balaclavas and have the excuse to be intimidating assholes and have the power to bundle people into vans (or railcars).

        • rottingleaf@lemmy.world
          1·
          6 days ago

          They were like football fans with knives, and their communist opponents kinda similar. So in part yes.

          In part there was that nuance, that they were the approved kind of hooligans with knives, and their communist opponents those the government feared more. But neither wore balaklavas, and mostly they were on equal grounds, just Nazis were able to attract more support eventually.

          In a poor depressed morally shaken environment communist ideas morph into Nazi ideas very quickly. Look not even at these people, but at (sincere, not official spoilers) communist groups in Russia, even the official CPRF has almost gone Nazi.

  • Hikuro-93@lemmy.worldEnglish
    37·
    7 days ago

    So how long until real criminals start following suit and impersonating undercover ICE agents? Not like there’s much distinction between either “career” now, is there?

    And then how long until ICE agents start showing up with holes on the ground because property owners “thought” they were real street thugs trying to rob them? Is there even a way to tell the difference? ~wink wink~

    • rottingleaf@lemmy.world
      121·
      7 days ago

      And then how long until ICE agents start showing up with holes on the ground because property owners “thought” they were real street thugs trying to rob them? Is there even a way to tell the difference? ~wink wink~

      Should happen more often, this aversion to civil violence is a bit like a game of “I drop my weapon, you drop yours” between governments and people, except governments never fulfill their part.

      Like Russian opposition trying to do “everything by the law” until realizing the other side never was, it was just silent enough in killing and randomly vanishing people and pretending its just dumb thieves. The same is happening in the EU right now, they just don’t know it yet.

    • qarbone@lemmy.worldEnglish
      3·
      6 days ago

      They’d be caught out too quickly.

      “Hey, wait a second! Yeah, you’re holding me at gunpoint but you’re asking me to put the money in the bag? But real ICE would have just kidnapped me!”

  • _core@sh.itjust.works
    521·
    7 days ago

    What are the odds it was a couple magats pretending to be ICE to fuck with immigrants or people the think are immigrants.

    • TheFriar@lemm.ee
      27·
      7 days ago

      Depressingly high.

      But also…depressingly low. The fact that they couldve been actual govt officials behaving this way is…worse?

    • Yardy Sardley@lemmy.ca
      12·
      7 days ago

      Odds are pretty damn good, I’d say.

      Still, it’s a distinction barely worth making. Garden varity pigs doing this shit are equally as unjust as brand name Pigs doing it.

    • GrumpyDuckling@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
      12·
      6 days ago

      I still think about this scene a lot because I’ve been there sheen relatively normal people casually talked about going to cities and shooting "democrats“ while also talking about the guns they were currently buying. I should have turned them in.

        • GrumpyDuckling@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
          3·
          6 days ago

          I have too many family members who are Leo, plus other reasons why they shouldn’t do that. Plus it would be homeland security or FBI for various other reasons. But it could be ICE because I know a lot of immigrants. It would be a clusterfuck.

    • TheDoozer@lemmy.world
      6·
      7 days ago

      I wonder if the director told that actor “have, just, the worst trigger discipline. Make it look like you have no business handling a firearm.”

      • duhbasser@lemm.eeEnglish
        6·
        6 days ago

        In the movie this is right after he executes 2 Chinese journalist, so lack of trigger discipline kinda makes sense. Oh and he’s about to try to execute a bunch more people in the up coming moments

        • miraclerandy@lemmy.world
          3·
          6 days ago

          Agreed. Dude was unhinged and didn’t give a fuck about any of that in this scene. Which obviously made it more tense

          • duhbasser@lemm.eeEnglish
            2·
            6 days ago

            I’m not sure how well received this movie is but I really enjoyed it. The movie did a good job at not really identifying this characters “military affiliation” as well as the first group of militia they ran into. To my knowledge, nothing really identified these two groups as being affiliated with the government or resistance, so the tendency to just kill everyone you don’t know is probably how most things would get handled in the fallout/duration of a civil war.

  • minorkeys@lemmy.world
    93·
    6 days ago

    Cops will take as much freedom as you give them and often they will attempt more than they have been granted. Never give cops an inch they are not legally entitled to. In democracies, laws exist to grant people freedom from the power of the state, not to grant the state freedom from the power of the people. Any laws that grant cops protection from the people are laws of a tyranny. We get only the protections of the state that our rights make possible and no more. Trading freedom for security gets us neither.

    • goldfndr@lemmy.ml
      31·
      6 days ago

      In democracies, laws exist to grant people freedom from the power of the state, not to grant the state freedom from the power of the people. Any laws that grant cops protection from the people are laws of a tyranny. We get only the protections of the state that our rights make possible and no more. Trading freedom for security gets us neither.

      Correction: In democracies, laws exist to grant power to the state, not to grant people freedom from the state. For example, I’m guessing that in your nearest democracy, there’s probably not a law granting you the freedom to stand still for more than a minute or lie down for more than a minute. The people’s freedom is a default.

      Now, perhaps what you were thinking of was that some laws have exceptions (that might be phrased as affirmative defenses). But those aren’t granting freedom to the people, they are restricting law enforcement. It’s like a “tax refund” — the government isn’t giving you their money, it’s returning your own money.