Yanno what? Good for them! Not only for swiftly defederating at their discretion (which I support, full stop) but also this open dialogue that is happening.
People forget that defederating can be reversed, but it requires communication and cooperation for that to be an option.
This is a good take. I find it strange that beehaw would be cast as the villains in this situation when an open line of communication exists between the admins with the tentative goal of refederating.
Exactly!!!
When I first read about the defederation I had a knee jerk angry response but after thinking about it I really feel like it makes sense for them. They want to have a heavily moderated space and it’s hard to do that when you integrate with the other communities. It seems to me they have a level head and are approaching this carefully. I hope that they end out being in the minority but I can understand having a few relatively solitary groups with a focused goal.
My biggest concern with this, is that it may keep many people from joining us / leaving reddit, as they also will have a knee jerk reaction, but won’t bother to look any further into it.
A good point, but honestly I think it barely matters compared to the fact you can barely use the home page right now.
Valid point.
I would like to thank /u/thedude for having an open dialogue with other instances.
Edit: (how) can I link to a user? @TheDude /u/TheDude
This is the way.
Btw thanks guys
I think you over complicated it?Let’s test @[email protected]Hmm. Maybe it doesn’t work on Lemmy.
After you type in
@the, wait for the context menu. Otherwise you need to use the URL https://example.com/u/username; you can hyperlink it using the format I showed you: [text](URL)
works
The transparency is refreshing.
cross-posted from: https://beehaw.org/post/594843
hey folks, here’s a quick update on our decision to defederate from sh.itjust.works! (and here’s sh.itjust.works’s side of this update)
we got in touch with the head admin over there, The Dude, and we had a pretty good chat about our concerns and reason for defederating. while immediate re-federation is just bluntly off the table with the rudimentary state of Lemmy’s moderation tools, we now have a pretty good idea of the roadmap to refederating with them. we think we’ll eventually be able to do this, although we don’t have a timetable on when yet.
we’re also now collaborating with him on how to move forward–and in the weeks and months to come we’ll be pushing to expedite the process of developing some of the necessary tools. this decision has really helped us make connections that can hopefully realize those tools both on the desktop side and in apps being developed for Lemmy. we’re also hoping to collaborate with other Lemmy administrators who have needs like our own, or just generally want more granular tools at their disposal.
we did also get in touch with the lemmy.world owner prior to defederating to share the concerns that prompted us to defederate[1]–but we have not received any communication from him since it was levied, so there’s no roadmap at all there as of now. we’re always open to reconsidering and collaborating to end the defederation with him, but for now the earliest i can give you is “when mod tools are in a better state”.
that’s all for now folks. if any new significant developments take place we’ll announce them as needed.
we’re only bringing this up now because it was just not useful information in the context of our announcement. it almost certainly would have been interpreted as some sort of callousness and/or brought unnecessary sectarianism and grief to him. at the end of the day he has his reasons and desires for running lemmy.world how he does, and we have ours for running Beehaw as we do. because of social and technological circumstances those are just incompatible right now, and that’s fine. ↩︎
I find it a bit ironic how so many people are pointing out how “growing is important to federation” specifically in reference to this… but at the same time, beehaw are one of the few sites that are against growth (as can bee seen by their requiring to get approved in order to join their server… which IMO is no better or worse than tilde’s invite requirement)… and, given the timing, it would seem that they are against hosting reddit refugees in particular.
Yes, you can claim it is for keeping beehaw’s site stable or curating users or plenty of other more palatable reasons. But at the end of the day, you are still turning users away. I have a lot of respect for kbin not closing its doors to new users, despite the load it is placing on their infrastructure.
Personally, I wouldn’t mind one bit if kbin/beehaw were defederated from each other (not advocating for it, just saying I wouldn’t care whatsoever if it happened on its own)
You can be for growth and against unchecked growth. The two are not the same.
they’re not against growth, it’s just not their priority and they don’t want to achieve it at any cost.
Which, honestly, I respect. If you know you can’t support growth then don’t push for it. Huge props to Ernest for dealing appropriately with the growth of kbin.social but I also approve of Beehaw’s approach - namely: we aren’t ready for that kind of growth right now so we aren’t going to let it happen.
I expect something similar will have to be put in place here at kbin as well sooner or later. Eventually we will run up against a limit of what Ernest can do being but a single man with but a single pair of hands.
nevermind
If you are referring to this
I wouldn’t mind one bit if kbin/beehaw were defederated from each other
then, unless you have some insider knowledge, I think you may be mistaken. kbin and beehaw are not defederated … at least not yet.
federated = joined in an alliance, e.g. linked
defederated = not federated, e.g. blocked / censored / not linked
source: https://beehaw.org/instances
Linked Instances
…
- kbin.social
Good news. Im on lemmy.world but I’m sure it will work out. As there is no corporation the users and admins can collectively work on share and own the tools for moderations.
And they’re open about it, rather than having it happen behind closed doors (or not at all), which is a good sign.
Exactly. The improved moderation tools will help everyone and there is no reason to keep it to one instance because of the non-profit nature of the fediverse (so far). Good stuff!
Great to hear that there is a dialog open between the admins. Hopefully it is all sorted swiftly. Federating with all of the large instances is important for the continued growth of the platform.
It’s almost like we need to create some kind of… Constitution that everyone agrees on for these United States… I mean, instances. Ahem.
Fuck off beehaw.org
Yeah how dare they try to make their site pleasant to be on, assholes /s
Removed by mod
What makes the space toxic? It just seemed like they were trying to make an inclusive space and had issues being able to moderate homophobia and anti-trans bigotry coming from these two instances and are finding alternative options. I understand why many (myself included) wouldnt like this, but I haven’t seen much toxicity inside the actual instance.
Removed by mod
Being anti-transphobia is not toxic.
And wow, thanks for linking to a completely random post of a singular person’s negative experience with bottom surgery, you using that incredibly specific post certainly doesn’t tell us what you think of trans people.
People love to find rare negative examples and signal boost them to the stars, if they don’t like something. I wish people were trying harder to be the people Mr. Rogers knew they could be.
Removed by mod
Removed by mod
Removed by mod
Why did Beehive decide to defederate?
Since lemmy.world and sh.itjust.works didn’t have any restrictions on making accounts they were getting a lot of trolls coming from those 2 instances so they defederated from them until the moderation tools become more advanced.
Given that kbin (or at least kbin.social) generally doesn’t have restrictions on making accounts either I would assume we’re next, eventually.
I’m sure we’d live somehow
If it comes to that… It is what it is!
I don’t need big instances directly piped into my vein to have a good time on the internet.
And if they do, nothing of value is lost.
The community in Beehaw are all cool people, but their weird rules and heavy filtering puts me off.
Beehaw admins give me vibes of a power-hungry reddit mods or overbearing parent who thinks they know better than me.
I’ll stick with other instances that allow adults to speak with adult language. I’m sick of the fucking nanny caretaker censoring bullshit that forums tend to eventually become.
I can understand the value of making your community a more tight-knit one with a proactive stance on moderation, that’s how Tildes operate and they’re doing fine. The thing is I’m not sure I understand why, given this goal, Beehaw is part of the Fediverse in the first place, where there isn’t much preventing someone from an outside group coming in. This sounds like a case where a centralized instance makes more sense. Maybe they’re trying to see if such a community can exist on the Fediverse, in which case fair enough, but this seems like an uphill road.
This is what all us kbinauts were thinking and a few of us asked beehaw and their response was literally “who are you? we don’t even think about you” lol. so I think we’re probably fine.
Removed by mod
They only have 4 admins and don’t allow users to create communities. It’s highly curated, but also can’t handle the influx of users from other instances until they have better mod tools, or change their position.
The solution was to ask for more volunteer mods, not the nuclear option.
Its surpassing how much they want to control what other people see.
100% agree, and their need for control is a huge red flag. I don’t really want them federated tbh. Already they are trying to use their control over several large communities to influence other instances policies.
Here’s the truth. They want a safe space. If you question the admins they will ban you. You must be militantly polite or your gone
What does “militantly polite” mean?
Overbearingly respectful, almost groveling, to their admins if you misspeak.
Do you have any examples of this?
Removed by mod
Except… that’s not what they say anywhere. In fact they wrote three nuanced essays that explain in detail their philosophy, and lay out that you CAN be critical of something (i.e. feminism) in a nice way that acknowledges your humanity and the humanity of others, and that if Feminists come in and flame you over it, THOSE are the people who will be getting warnings and bans. They want a mature community that fosters mutual understanding when disagreements arise. So when someone says “feminism bad” like they have a 26 character limit that doesn’t exist, they see it not as disagreement but as disrespect.
Removed by mod
They explicitly state that they’re making a safe space in their TOS thing, no?
Removed by mod
Yes? That’s explicitly the purpose. I get it’s shitty but it’s pretty stupid to go to a place where they outright tell you they’re going to censor you and then get mad that they do it
Removed by mod
