Man the construction worker in me just sees a muscle shirt outline, a tin of chew, a key ring, set of steel toes and a daughter’s bracelet. But I guess any image can be intentionally made misleading eh?
Well I don’t think OP means “tackle this pig on sight” moreso “be wary of this potential pig”
So anyone that looks like a generic construction worker? That’s the issue when people make “infographics” like this and spread them.
Don’t see any toe pro on those boots, and dip cans are generally perfectly round.
I have steel toes that look just like that.
Are undershirts usually lumpy? Undershirts are lightweight enough to not really affect the overshirt. They’re also smooth other than wrinkles—there is clearly some padding being offered by whatever is under that shirt.
What “issue”? Again, it’s just saying keep an eye on them, especially at a protest. They could be a cop. So be careful…
This guy is definitely a cop
You are describing the loop of plastic audio wire poking out of his shirt as a keyring there. You can look up higher res copies of this image. Duckduckgo had two different, higher-resolutiot copies right at the top of the page of this guy. It’s supposed to be hard to spot them, otherwise they wouldn’t exactly be doing a good job, yeah? Also, this picture specifically is being shown because the guy was confirmed to be an undercover cop. It was during the George Floyd protests.
If you zoom in (the potato quality image) there is absolutely the outline of a vest under the shirt. The printing on the back pocket is not round like a tin of chew. The rest I couldn’t say for sure, boots, bracelet, etc. but the vest and cuffs look dead on.
IMO that vest outline is the real giveaway. You can see where the velcro attaches.
I’d bet that if that guy lifted his pant cuffs you’d find an ankle holster too.
I have no real experience with this but I understood the graphic to just be a starting point.
Couldn’t it just be resolved with a simple follow-up conversation? e.g.
“Hey you’re not a cop, are you?”
“No way man”
“Ok, lift up your shirt for a sec.”
If he won’t, he’s probably wearing a vest and/or wire.
Or alternative scenario: “Hey you’re welcome to join, but you gotta ditch the handcuffs.”
“What, you mean this tin of sour candy?”
Dawg asking someone in public to lift their shirt sounds exactly like something a cop would ask. Sketch, or something you saw in a show.
Ok, what’s a better way then? I flat out told you I don’t have experience with this.
Start by not talking to cops, even if they’re just potential cops.
If you came with friends to an action then stick to talking with just your friends until you have more experience. If no friends then it’s better to go to events outside of protests to talk to folk.
Start by not talking to cops, even if they’re just potential cops.
I mean, I’m aware that’s considered good advice in general. FWIW though I’m assuming this is with 20+ protesters standing in easy earshot, not a private 1:1 conversation. Maybe there are better questions, or someone else should ask? Or is it better to ignore the potential cop? I feel like other protesters would want to be aware who is hiding among them.
Until you’re experienced in the situation it’s best to just ignore and keep distance. You can run the risk of fed-jacketing (calling someone a cop/fed without solid evidence). Observe others and learn from the experienced folk in your particular groups as to how this should be handled because it does vary from scene to scene.
This is also generally true for media/journalists. If you don’t have media training, don’t make a fool of yourself and by extension everyone else.
When you’re starting out, just get the feel for things and learn how to keep yourself and your friends safe. Learn how to calculate risk and threat model. Learn how to keep communication and coordination with friends in the chaotic environment.
yeah none of those are suuuuuper productive lines of questioning. I can think of multiple plausible outs on all of them. maybe not the wire.
So are you saying that asking questions (maybe not these specific ones) wouldn’t be helpful here? If so, what do you propose instead? Ignore the person? Notify the protest organizers?
no im saying those specific questions aren’t as productive as they could be.
cops shoot at people; vests are a safety thing. the handcuffs are for my boyfriend. etc.
I think the point here is to be aware of a combination of these items. e.g. If the person has a vest (more noticeable), they might also be wearing a wire (less obvious).
I’m not sure there’s a good excuse to bring handcuffs to a protest. Nothing wrong with being kinky IMO, but leave that shit at home.
sometimes people are dumb. im just saying it’s plausible.
You must not have seen very many tins of chew or key rings during your time as a “construction worker” then. That’s not even close. Me thinks you doth protest a bit too much. Your comment honestly reinforces this image even more.
If any actual patriots are reading this and see something like what’s in this image at a protest, be very skeptical of that person. Protect yourself and don’t let obvious agents tell you to brush it off as something else.
You’re not wrong. Protestors can face retaliation which causes paranoia and is an obstacle in growing organizing efforts. There are some arguments in the comments about what the specific items are, but there are more explanations that fit their defenses. For example, it could really be a vest under the shirt, but maybe it’s a disabled person’s cooling vest and not a bulletproof vest. I urge yall to still be cautious of strangers, including waryness of people who look like they can be the correct demo for cops, without also running off people we don’t really know anything about with our bad attitudes.
I feel like a “muscle shirt” wouldn’t have the horizontal part as shown in this picture…
its a bra actually
I’ve never worn one. But from what I understand, they’re supposed to support breasts, not sit under them, against the abdomen!
Hmmmm?
Former LEO. That’s definitely a vest he’s wearing under his shirt, and those are definitely cuffs in his back pocket.
Homie that’s a vest. There’s no shapeware for men that look like body armor.
We still wear chains on jeans right?
At my school, there was this guy in my general circle. Played in a punk band, different one than mine, hanging out at the same parties, didn’t talk much, but easy to get along with. Also, looked like a punk and partied like a punk. Really good with his instrument, also did jazz on a high level.
Many years later, someone sent me a link from a left leaning forum: He was caught as a deep undercover cop. Apparently went to the police academy (~ 3 years in Germany) and got planted shortly after. He “lived” 100 km from his home with roommates who politically active, again in a punk band, participating in apparently as many political groups as he could schedule. Almost all of them were entirely legal, such as advocating for better welfare laws. He sat there, listened, didn’t talk much. No contact to actual terrorist cells or anything like that. Minor vandalism and unregistered protests perhaps.
They only caught him after a few years when someone from our home town recognised him at a punk concert and called him by his real name in front of other people. He just walked away, and his fake personality disappeared immediately. From what I can find, doing low-profile police work ever since.
It’s a bit concerning that they spy on entirely legal groups as well as groups who commit minor offences with such enormous resources. Must have cost like 100k per year; with deep analysis of his reports probably more. Just to get a list of people to “take care of” when we go full Trump here?
Anyway, my point: Surprising that the undercover cop in the picture makes so many mistakes. He was apparently spotless.
Surprising that the undercover cop in the picture makes so many mistakes. He was apparently spotless.
There’s big difference between undercover stings and a cop trying to blend into a public mass. The goals are entirely different.
I read Undercover recently and it shows just how far they’ll go to infiltrate those groups they deem a threat. Not the right wing groups who suggest that murdering MPs might be a good idea, obviously; just those marginally to the left of Goebbels.
This is less concerning to me. I HOPE that there are these same undercover people watching the local gun-nut groups, and GravySeals chapters. They don’t have much real threat, but it’s a breeding ground for extremism.
Oh they’re there, but they aren’t undercover
Well yeah, it’s white sheets not covers that they hide under.
Technically they’re all undercover at those gatherings.
Apparently went to the police academy (~ 3 years in Germany)
Germany. That’s the difference.
Haha I am sleepy so I can’t look up the source right now: but American Intelligence has stated in the past they don’t like to infiltrate tight leftist groups because leftists usually will ask the Plant many questions. The Plant often has to read a lot to prepare so that they pass the sniff test. They’ve stated that they prefer to infiltrate any other groups (especially conservative groups) because they don’t have to read so much.
That’s an incredibly interesting story. Thanks for sharing.
He just walked away, and his fake personality disappeared immediately.
Punks got lucky. In Russia it would have ended differently.
This is the US. There are very little training requirements. The specific requirements are usually state based. Arkansas and Indiana have basically no training required. The average officer trains for 21 weeks.
Get into some of the smaller cities and they’ll throw any rookie into plain clothes and call them undercover with very little undercover training.
This guy is likely more of an agitator than an investigator. He’s equipped to be an enforcer, not to investigate.
I feel like this isnt highlighting the two most obvious things I’d notice first. Undercover cops for some reason think the backwards cap is still cool and makes them blend in. And they always seem to pick the Yankees or Red Sox to blend in as well. So those would be my giveaways personally 🤷
“You can tell he isn’t an undercover cop, nobody wears a Cleveland guardians hat as a disguise”
I’d say the pussy vest is the biggest give away.
One arrow missing, pointing to the partially covered Nazi tattoo.
Some of those that work forces
You mean on the right arm? That’s the other big tell. They pick a colour of the day, then every cop wears something obvious (bandana, armband, tape on the pants, etc.) in that colour so that other cops can spot that and not shoot them.
I can’t exactly make out the tattoo in the image, and I can’t tell if your remark was tongue-in-cheek. Would you mind linking to a source for the tattoo that you are referring to?
I’m assuming. But if there in person, you should look at it
there’s also some behavioral tells. the best one: cops don’t know theory. the better ones can memorize some stuff, but they can’t extrapolate. there’s more, but think along those lines.
Something my friend told me is that there are 3 easy tells of an undercover cop:
- Buff
- Alone
- Dresses very averagely (compared to the queer people around him)
If someone matches all 3 descriptors, it is likely they’re a cop
On the other hand, if it’s someone alone and dressed very averagely but not buff, then that’s just me.
I have been accused of being a cop at rallys because I’m a loner with K-Mart dress sense and no Rizz.
Sorry you had to find out this way, that you’re a cop.
The other meaning of ACAB
Assigned Cop At Birth
🤣
Its just taken me a long time to come to terms with it, and even longer to find a safe space to ‘come out’ as a jackbooted rat bastard
well, I still think you should be hanged you rat bastard piece of shit, but im really glad you had the courage to come out. <3
you won’t catch every one using easy tells like this. they’re just good heuristics.
Yeah at the end of the day if you’re going to do things you don’t want a cop to see you need to compartmentalize information. Move from who needs not to know, and to who absolutely needs to know what exactly.
“So, please explain how General Relativity says that a gravitational field causes time dilation.”
more like
‘so if sharing is generally good and being told what to do is generally bad, what would your life look like in your ideal world?’
Bro I’m not there to question my life choices and the ideal world I’m there to wreak destruction on my opressors
and who are those?
you have an idea of that, right? you can extrapolate that, right? there are things that naturally follow from the obvious thoughts you have. you can follow those. they will have a lot more trouble doing so.
Ask them what their political ideology is on a deeper level than communist or anarchist. And then ask them to describe it.
not useless.
Yeah its half a joke, but seriously, if you’ve been leftist long enough you know the fights we have over taxes. The argument as a shibboleth isn’t a perfect tool, it can fail and it can make everyone hate each other, but cops are unlikely to be prepared for it
, if you’ve been leftist long enough you know the fights we have over taxes.
“ANCAP ANCAP!? NAP NAP NAP!!! THEN WHO WOULD BUILD THE ROADS?”
Did I do it right?
Absolutely officer, you did swimmingly.
Hey - first off, how fucking dare you
Secondly - >implying cops wouldn’t know what the NAP is even just to mock it
Oh cops absolutely know about it. Their “anarchist” buddies talk about it. It’s just that ancaps aren’t anarchists
we don’t have fights over the concept of taxes; you’re just wrong and it’s okay for you to be wrong as long as you do it my way.
Georgism
oh, see, im a post(ing)-posadist, and you’re just wrong. the revolution will only happen when our radio shell reaches alien civilizations and so thoroughly disturbs their linguists that they send help and make a classless stateless society for us.
only posting can bring the revolution, comrade.
Our radio shell will never reach alien civilizations because of the very low power and the inverse square law. The signals will be weaker than the CMB before they get any real distance.
Wow way to go for the nuclear option
Reminds me of the big fun fair last year. There have been some incidents in the last years where idiots (either islamic terrorists of white people with mental issues, your choice) have driven cars into groups of people, so there was a rather immense police presence on that fair. As they had promised on the radio they had both uniformed and civilian officers patrolling. I have no idea why they bother with civilian clothes, as the groups of non-uniformed policemen really stuck out like sore thumbs in the flow of happy, carelessly celebrating people. They could have worn helmets with flashing lights and not be any more noticable.
there are islamic terrorists in the americas? I call bullshit. terrorists are straight white cis men.
I’m not taking about America. I live in a country where I don’t have to decide what is worse - the cops or the terrorists. Seeing uniformed policemen patrolling the fair had been a very calming effect, actually. It was just funny how easy it was to spot the non-uniformed ones.
cops are definitionally terrorists. they’re literally there to intimidate, to use terror, to enforce a political agenda. it’s kind of their whole thing.
also, terrorists are straight cis white dudes. pretty much always. you just hear way more all the times any one of those categories is off by one. like, I love how you said “islamic terrorists” like those are purely idealistic, but “straight white cis men with mental issues” as if they have a fucking excuse, and the things they believe aren’t culpable. that did sound pretty american.
Not everywhere is America. In civilized countries, people have civilized police.
so they don’t do so much rape with their muder? only rape and murder the right people? american police are orders of magnitude worse, but what you’ve got is still not good.
WTF are you hallucinating about?
Terrorists are not limited to straight white dudes, not Europe they arent.
Of the last 10 attacks in Germany, 7 were islamist, 2 were right wing and one is inconclusive.
American defaultism at its best.
I said ‘the americas’! that’s canada to chile!
Huh. Guess i was wrong.
To be honest very few people know theory. Like, you can be anti-fascist but you don’t need to have actually read Das Kapital or anything to be that.
I didn’t even know what that person was talking about until you said that. Seems like a pretty elitist “tell.” I don’t really know any theory beyond that I don’t like billionaires or fascists. I would hope we would be welcoming people like myself at protests instead of trying to call us out as undercover pigs.
not everybody has necessarily read lots, but you pick some up just kind of around if you hang out around lefties. we can be pretty obnoxious like that. it’s not all explicit; there’s other ways to ask the question.
but you get ideas about how society operates, or should operate, or could operate. if you’re really out feeding unhoused people or finding the gaps in systems to exploit or finding the gaps in systems to try and fill them in and hold them together to buy five more seconds til collapse. you kind of can’t not. even if your ideas aren’t very sophisticated or somebody else already articulated it better.
and you can absolutely extrapolate from that. or a what-if.
You forgot the most obvious indication he’s a cop… Yankee’s baseball cap
AYFAB?
Assigned Yankees Fan At Birth?
All Yankees Fans Are…
- Beautiful
- Bodacious
- Bitchin’
- Illegitimate
Take your pick :)
Botanical
I swear Yankees caps are conservative-coded no matter where you encounter them.
A clear sign are also people in red baseball hats licking the cop boots.
I don’t even need to pay attention to their clothing. Pigs have a distinct smell and swagger to them that immediately gives them away.
And if they’re too far away to smell you can always pick one out by this handy comparison chart.
They do walk a certain way
In the UK they like North Face coats a lot of the time. They don’t really use plain clothes for protest as much anymore. A new strategy that is similar but annoying is the use of “auditors”. One of the big ones became an informant so they all copied him in becoming unaware unofficial evidence gatherers, even though the whole concept of auditing is supposedly highlighting police corruption.
One of the big ones
A large cop?
they all copied him in becoming unaware unofficial evidence gatherers
They who?
deleted by creator
There have been agitators pretending to be supporters of this anti fascist protests, Andy ngo being a well known trying to pretend as one of them
Agent provacateur?
This infographic first turned up during the BLM protests, but one should generally be wary of undercover agents.
During Occupy, playing “Spot the Fed” was a great workout for skills I developed at DefCon. Literally every protest movement in this country is riddled with undercover agents, secret police informants, planted agitators, and spooks. Learning to ID them is a vital survival skill for activists.
Agent porkateur.
Agent provocateur, as in provoke.
Indeed.
Start handing out blue bracelets.
Or ask him into his face if his colleagues will beat him up, too, if he loses his bracelet.
At a protest many years ago in Germany, two undercover cops were beaten up pretty badly by other cops. They had a “safeword”, but apparently the other cops were already in a frenzy and didn’t stop.
A beating frenzy
Forces that regularly do plainclothes often have a “color of the day” for this reason.
Generally these are the guys who are inciting violence and even starting it, they will throw bottles and encourage violence and then use the footage of their own cops as proof that the protesters are violent.
ban demonstrations, provide no evidence, commit act of violence towards unarmed protestors, cause concussions and stampedes, label them terrorists and talk about the tax money lost because there was damage to nearby buildings
Don’t attack just point and oink.
The wrap around Oakleys have to be somewhere as well…
Sometimes they take them off and put them on the back of their backwards hat while undercover. What happened here is they were either stolen or fell off. But you can always pick out the facial indent and tan line if they’re missing.
fun fact: you can tell how long someone has been a cop by the depth of the Oakley indent on their face.
