Hopefully people can stop with the “I bet Bethesda will take down skyblivion!1!!” comments now. It’s very clear there’s good will between modders and the devs.
sounds PR stunt-y
OK but still good
I mean… It’s soooo little lol it’s a copy of a game… It’s like me printing a good job certificate to pay my car mechanic. It’s almost worse… Than nothing.
That’s a pretty shitty comparison, considering the Skyblivion team didn’t work on the remaster. And why don’t you let the Skyblivion team speak for themselves? Because they’re quite happy.
It’s not a stunt if it’s a good thing
Agelord, you dropped this /s
I disagree. Of course it’s a PR stunt, but it’s a good thing for everyone involved. Bethesda gets positive PR and the mod team gets a free copy of a remastered version of the game we all love.
I disagree. Of course it’s a PR stunt
If you disagree, then why do you call it a stunt?
Because it can be a PR stunt and be s good thing.
That’s not disagreeing then: “It’s not a stunt if it’s a good thing”
Huh, you’re right. I see that now.
I have been waiting so many years now for Skyblivion that I am not going to bother with the Remaster. And to be honest, something with the Remaster and UE5 feels off visually.
The Skyblivion Teams attention to detail and love for the project makes me believe that it will also be the superior version of Oblivion.
We can eat both
They’re just playing games within games, people! Trying to delay the release of Skyblivion by getting the devs to start another 200 hour playthrough!
Jokes aside, I hope the remaster is good.
It’s not great. I haven’t run into a single bug yet. How is this even a Bethesda game?
Literally unplayable!
No bugs? In my bethesda game?
Literally
unplayable!That’s unacceptable!
I thought about that. It’s developed by a non-Bethesda studio in a non-Bethesda engine. Where are the bugs going to come from?? Unplayable.
well, it’s still oblivion running but without the graphics engine that’s been replaced with ue5
So it is! I didn’t realize that, super cool. I assumed it was all ported to UE5
They want them to be busy playing this and never finish Skyblivion hahaha
I don’t get why some people think Skyblivion is some threat to Bethesda Elder Scrolls games at all. Mods are always going to be more niche than fully marketed and funded maintained commercial storefront releases.
Skyblivion is going to be limited to what the latest Skyrim release engine supports while this remaster has Unreal Engine 5 stapled on top as the graphics renderer. They added new voice acting. People are developing mod toolchains for the remaster. It’s more substantial than the vast majority of remasters we’ve seen
I don’t think many people believe that Bethesda views skyblivion as something that will compete for market share. I think it’s more of a surprise to people that in an age where so many major companies are quick to go after modders, Bethesda has not only allowed skyblivion to exist but has also officially acknowledged their work in a positive light.
The remaster is good. I hope Skyblivion is good. More games for consumers, the better. People here are commenting as if Bethesda has a responsibility to handhold the entire modding community. They are just doing their thing to make some money with employees that want to get paid and also make good games. Bethesda has had some downs but also some ups. This remaster is an up so I enjoy more Elder Scrolls.
More TES is always a win imo
God so many people on here act like Todd Howard personally killed their child. It’s fucking insufferable. You guys don’t crucify other companies like this when it comes to mods. This only happens with Bethesda who is realistically one of the only companies that has supported mods in the mainstream. Games can also be good without mods. Get over yourselves and just enjoy a fucking game.
What are people complaining about? It can be modded.
Shut up I’m entertained seeing all these ignorant people who don’t know what they’re talking about crying.
People are complaining because Bethesda didn’t launch the game with official mod support. Meaning it doesn’t have a “mods” option on the main menu. Bethesda hasn’t said they have a problem with mods or will go after anyone that uses them. But everyone is acting like this means Bethesda suddenly hates mods. Skyrim launched without official mod support too, but somehow it managed to be a successful game on top of having a massive modding community. People just want to complain for the sake of complaining.
The vast majority of games don’t have official mod support. Fuck them for sometimes officially supporting it, I guess.
Bro, literally. Bethesda drops the next-gen update for Fallout 4 right before the show/Fallout: London mod releases, and everyone and their mother believes Bethesda is purposefully sabotaging the FO: Lon team by doing so. Once the dust settles, everyone just goes “oopsie, wasn’t me 🤭”
Bethesda “shadow-drops” (there were plenty of leaks and no one seemed to dispute the claims anyway) the release of Oblivion Remastered right when there’s a ton of talk about Skyblivion recently being close to completion, and everyone and their mother once again blames Bethesda for purposefully doing so to sabotage yet another huge mod team. When in reality, Bethesda gave copies to each of the team members who are actively working on said project for free as a token of appreciation for being such devoted fans of the IP in the first place.
It’s like everyone has these weird “anti-Bethesda” blinders on whenever there’s a new thing from them in the news that gathers any bit of hype. Even the Bethesda fanboys are guilty of this.
Official Mod support often gets added later, Starfield for example was launched without and it was added later. This is a general trend nowadays, mod support for Baldurs Gate 3 (as an non Bethesda example) was added later too.
I am sure Oblivion Remastered will get mod support, and I would be very surprised if mod support will not also come with Creations integration.
I think it’s because Bethesda has a long history of attacking their modding community
Can you give one example where Bethesda has actually attacked the modding community?
And no, “updating their game after a highly popular TV show directly related to it came out” doesn’t count.
Why would anyone think that it would be taken down? The one thing Bethesda is good at is encouraging people to mod their games. It’s the only reason why I didn’t give up on them as a company after those two disasters called Fallout 76 and Starfield. (But to be fair my patience is running thin. ES6 and FO5 both have got to be absolute smash hits.)
eehhh they allow modding, but do nothing to support it.
Nothing? What about the development and free public release of the Creation Kit?
Uhhhh didn’t they try, and fail at monetizing creation kit mods? and how many REAL mods come from it?
It’s still a thing unfortunately, one could argue they’re attempting to make modding profitable for modders, but of course they get a cut too.
Totally, this is why Bethesda games are so good for mods.
I hear they just gave everyone on the Skyblivion mod team a copy of the remaster.
You know, I think I did hear that somewhere.
Point still stands.
Anyone play Fallout London? I couldn’t rollback the pointless update that cockblocked the mod. This time, they just make an attempt to squeeze out money before skyblivion offers the option.
Unless Bethesda actually fully embraces and supports the modding community, I’ll never buy another one of their games.
their eula for oblivion remastered forbids modding
Source? Iirc it just said that modding wasn’t supported, not forbidden
https://store.steampowered.com/eula/2623190_eula_0
Section 3D
- LIMITATIONS AND RESTRICTIONS.
Certain features of the Game are a Service offered by ZeniMax and may only be downloaded online. In such cases, an Internet connection (which is not supplied by ZeniMax) is required to access these features. You are responsible for all costs and expenses associated with acquiring any hardware, software (e.g., Internet browsers), or other products or services required to play the Game.
In addition to the restrictions, conditions, and limitations set forth in the ZeniMax Terms of Service and the ZeniMax Code of Conduct, the license granted to you in this EULA is subject to the conditions, restrictions, and limitations set forth in Section 1 and this Section 3 of this EULA (collectively, the “License Limitations”). Any use of the Game in violation of the License Limitations will be regarded as an infringement of ZeniMax’s copyrights in and to the Game and will be a breach of this Agreement. You agree that you will not and will not assist any other person, under any circumstances, to:
D. use cheats, automation software (bots), hacks, mods, or any other unauthorized third-party software designed to modify the Game or adversely impact any other persons playing of the Game or their experience of playing the Game
- LIMITATIONS AND RESTRICTIONS.
Certain features of the Game are a Service offered by ZeniMax and may only be downloaded online. In such cases, an Internet connection (which is not supplied by ZeniMax) is required to access these features. You are responsible for all costs and expenses associated with acquiring any hardware, software (e.g., Internet browsers), or other products or services required to play the Game.
In addition to the restrictions, conditions, and limitations set forth in the ZeniMax Terms of Service and the ZeniMax Code of Conduct, the license granted to you in this EULA is subject to the conditions, restrictions, and limitations set forth in Section 1 and this Section 3 of this EULA (collectively, the “License Limitations”). Any use of the Game in violation of the License Limitations will be regarded as an infringement of ZeniMax’s copyrights in and to the Game and will be a breach of this Agreement. You agree that you will not and will not assist any other person, under any circumstances, to:
Does it really? That’s batshit.
https://store.steampowered.com/eula/2623190_eula_0
Section 3D
- LIMITATIONS AND RESTRICTIONS.
Certain features of the Game are a Service offered by ZeniMax and may only be downloaded online. In such cases, an Internet connection (which is not supplied by ZeniMax) is required to access these features. You are responsible for all costs and expenses associated with acquiring any hardware, software (e.g., Internet browsers), or other products or services required to play the Game.
In addition to the restrictions, conditions, and limitations set forth in the ZeniMax Terms of Service and the ZeniMax Code of Conduct, the license granted to you in this EULA is subject to the conditions, restrictions, and limitations set forth in Section 1 and this Section 3 of this EULA (collectively, the “License Limitations”). Any use of the Game in violation of the License Limitations will be regarded as an infringement of ZeniMax’s copyrights in and to the Game and will be a breach of this Agreement. You agree that you will not and will not assist any other person, under any circumstances, to:
D. use cheats, automation software (bots), hacks, mods, or any other unauthorized third-party software designed to modify the Game or adversely impact any other persons playing of the Game or their experience of playing the Game
- LIMITATIONS AND RESTRICTIONS.
Certain features of the Game are a Service offered by ZeniMax and may only be downloaded online. In such cases, an Internet connection (which is not supplied by ZeniMax) is required to access these features. You are responsible for all costs and expenses associated with acquiring any hardware, software (e.g., Internet browsers), or other products or services required to play the Game.
In addition to the restrictions, conditions, and limitations set forth in the ZeniMax Terms of Service and the ZeniMax Code of Conduct, the license granted to you in this EULA is subject to the conditions, restrictions, and limitations set forth in Section 1 and this Section 3 of this EULA (collectively, the “License Limitations”). Any use of the Game in violation of the License Limitations will be regarded as an infringement of ZeniMax’s copyrights in and to the Game and will be a breach of this Agreement. You agree that you will not and will not assist any other person, under any circumstances, to:
and yet…
https://store.steampowered.com/eula/2623190_eula_0
Section 3D
- LIMITATIONS AND RESTRICTIONS.
Certain features of the Game are a Service offered by ZeniMax and may only be downloaded online. In such cases, an Internet connection (which is not supplied by ZeniMax) is required to access these features. You are responsible for all costs and expenses associated with acquiring any hardware, software (e.g., Internet browsers), or other products or services required to play the Game.
In addition to the restrictions, conditions, and limitations set forth in the ZeniMax Terms of Service and the ZeniMax Code of Conduct, the license granted to you in this EULA is subject to the conditions, restrictions, and limitations set forth in Section 1 and this Section 3 of this EULA (collectively, the “License Limitations”). Any use of the Game in violation of the License Limitations will be regarded as an infringement of ZeniMax’s copyrights in and to the Game and will be a breach of this Agreement. You agree that you will not and will not assist any other person, under any circumstances, to:
D. use cheats, automation software (bots), hacks, mods, or any other unauthorized third-party software designed to modify the Game or adversely impact any other persons playing of the Game or their experience of playing the Game
or adversely impact any other persons playing of the Game or their experience of playing the Game
Wouldn’t want to adversely impact other people while playing your single player game. They can say what they want, people will mod it regardless.
That means literally nothing to modders, and about 99% of gamers, at all.
I’m even surprised people had enough energy/time/whatever to even scour the EULA at the very beginning.
Some of us care about who we give our money to
I understand that, and I care who I give my money to as well.
But almost every game nowadays has that clause, and almost every game regardless of single player or not, has mods for it.
This is also a Bethesda game. People are going to mod it out the ass regardless of what a few words in a text box say. The fact you think it means anything like we’ll never get official mod support is pretty cooked tbh.
Yes we should give Microsoft and Bethesda the benefit of the doubt. They’ve never done anything shady like try to sell mods before.
- LIMITATIONS AND RESTRICTIONS.
Certain features of the Game are a Service offered by ZeniMax and may only be downloaded online. In such cases, an Internet connection (which is not supplied by ZeniMax) is required to access these features. You are responsible for all costs and expenses associated with acquiring any hardware, software (e.g., Internet browsers), or other products or services required to play the Game.
In addition to the restrictions, conditions, and limitations set forth in the ZeniMax Terms of Service and the ZeniMax Code of Conduct, the license granted to you in this EULA is subject to the conditions, restrictions, and limitations set forth in Section 1 and this Section 3 of this EULA (collectively, the “License Limitations”). Any use of the Game in violation of the License Limitations will be regarded as an infringement of ZeniMax’s copyrights in and to the Game and will be a breach of this Agreement. You agree that you will not and will not assist any other person, under any circumstances, to:
I’m pretty out of the loop on that sort of thing, but the games come with inbuilt game editors to make your own mods really easily right?
The point is that they shipped an update that was mostly pointless, or even completely pointless on PC, that basically blocked the release of a huge scale very anticipated mod days before the release date.
The argument is that they like profiting off their mod creators, but they try to squeeze the community for more money every time they can, like with the paid mods nonsense, and also don’t give a shit about them.
Ok. Thanks for taking this stand, your service is appreciated.
Damn, I didn’t realize that you not being able to undo an update that they most likely had planned for at least a year or two to coincide with the release of the Fallout show led to you boycotting all things Bethesda.
I didn’t know Todd personally fucked with your rig to force you to live with the next-gen update and not be able to play a mod. I guess he’s just going around to everyone’s place and making sure they have all their Bethesda games fully up to date so they’re mods keep getting fucked with.
Save your dialogue for NPCs, maybe they care
deleted by creator
I am looking forward to playing the Remaster. It sounds like they’ve fixed pretty much everything I didn’t like about the original Oblivion - like the awful level up system. Hopefully they rebalanced the “difficulty” in a good way too. Last time I played Oblivion I remember higher difficulties being boring because it mostly meant even the weakest enemies would take a billion hits to kill.
Skyblivion will be fun to play too.
I’m not paying 55€ for a remaster of Oblivion. I’d rather wait for Skyblivion. Or Bethesda needs to push the remaster in my hands free of cost.
Still fuck Bethesda
No mods on the remaster? Get fucked Bethesda.
There are already mods being uploaded to the Nexus…
I was gonna bring back lmgtfy but fuck it - I literally just don’t care what you think or feel.
How do I turn off notifications? Christ.
Literally none of what that person commented with was a thought or a feeling. It was an actual fact, with proof.
Turn off notifications over… two replies?
Snowflake powers, ACTIVATE! Form of… a thin-skinned Lemming!
Why not just delete your stupid comment?
I understand your nickname. They made you afterall
It still uses GameBryo for game logic so that is likely moddable. Graphical mods would probably be more complicated.
Always be suspicious of corporations.
What is the point of this cynical comment in this context. Everyone is winning here.
“We beat you to it bitches. And while you’ve spent 9 years on your labor of love and and made nothing from it, we will make tens of millions. Here’s a couple copies of our shittily optimized remaster just to rub it in :)”
Sincerely Todd
Yeah they spent years working on a remaster just to dunk on a small mod team. Next time, Bethesda should ask for fan’s permission to work on the franchise they literally own! /s
Yeah they spent years working on a remaster just to dunk on a small mod team.
Yes, that literally is what they did.
If Skyblivion had released first, even for free, far more people would be going… wait, why would I pay for yet another Bethesda remaster… when a free one already exists?
This is the company that routinely releases broken buggy games, because they can’t figure out how to actually fix their engine, their games routinely have to be fixed and patched by modders… who keep trying to figure out how to monetize mods or any kind of additional content the way record labels monetize artists.
At this point, it is difficult for me to think of a game company that is more absuive and exploitative of its most truly dedicated fans… aside from Roblox.
I mean, I’m sure they couldn’t charge for Skyblivion in the first place. I get that it’s a huge undertaking and all, but they’re still using someone else’s assets and engine that they didn’t get the official license for unlike Obsidian with Fallout: New Vegas.
Fallout: London didn’t charge, I’m sure for exactly the same reason.
Its kind of ironic that all you’re thinking about is money while these modders are doing it for the love of the craft. Sure everyone would love to see a paid release of Skyblion on Steam like Valve allowed with Black Mesa, but the modders are building this regardless.
Bethseda certainly wouldn’t love to see that, they’d sue them into… ahem, well, Oblivion, if they tried.
Isn’t that just unnecessarily cynical. Can’t Bethesda appreciate what the Skyblivion people are doing, knowing that they’ll appreciate the gesture?
Oh, well, ‘Bethesda apprectiating what the Skyblivion people are doing’ would look something like hiring the mod team to complete their work in house, as an actual official product.
… So that they could be, you know, paid for their passionate work.
Passion doesn’t pay bills.
Does… did everyone just now not remember how that was a thing that used to happen? Mod teams actually getting hired, paid?
Particularly with Valve, back in the late 90s through 00’s?
I’m just saying they could appreciate something in a “hey that’s pretty cool” way, and at the same time have no interest in them actually being part of Bethesda itself. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Ok then, keep paying all your favorite artist’s bills with ‘appreciation’.
Yep, its a massive corpo style flex, ‘kill them with mandated kindness’ type of move, grin for the cameras as we demean you.
The Skyblivion devs are almost certainly in mental shambles right now, but they have to put on the happy face.
Anyone who doesn’t understand this has either never worked in software, or for a large corp, or both.
I mean:
1.) It’s Bethesda’s IP
-
The “remaster” was not just a paint job. That took a whole damn team, a very hard working team, to rebuild the game in UE5.
-
Skyblivion will probably continue development despite it.
None of that changes or even addresses what I said in the comment you are replying to.
Yes, a corpo flex often involves throwing a ton of money and manpower at something…
Yes, Skyblivion development will probably continue… doesn’t change the fact that Bethesda just did a giant corpo flex on them.
The… whole … point of a corpo flex … is to showcase that you have a disproportionate amount of legal and monetary power, and you can use that to humiliate upstarts, show others how insignificant they are.
Have… you never worked in a large corp? Or… studied how they make business decisions?
Have you ever worked in software development?
… never even picked the corpo background for cyberpunk 2077?
I’ve done all three: worked in corps, am a dev, and have done some games dev early career.
When you dev something, it’s a miracle anything works. All modern software is a giant Jenga pile. When a large project rolls out the door, the feeling is never “oh wow let’s flex on these peasants”, it’s more like “my shit sucks oh god when will it break but try it out and see what you think”.
If I was on the Bethesda team, I would actually be very interested in trying to get feedback from the only other group of devs that remotely know what it’s like to do something similar. What approaches did they take? What’s similar? What’s different? Did the choices that other team make lead to a better product? How much more elegant is their code?
The only people who ruin goodwill like that are overzealous IP lawyers.
If I was on the Bethesda team, I would actually be very interested in trying to get feedback from the only other group of devs that remotely know what it’s like to do something similar. What approaches did they take? What’s similar? What’s different? Did the choices that other team make lead to a better product? How much more elegant is their code?
… And why didn’t Bethesda do this with the Skyblivion team?
Why didn’t they offer to at least pay them temporarily as contracted consultants?
Because management is full of themselves and maniacally, socio/psychopathically profit driven.
You can’t say they weren’t aware of the Skyblivion project, they literally coordinated a publicized action with them as part of their release schedule.
…
Game dev in particular, and even software dev generally, in America, at least… is absolutely chalk full of situations where one person or team or whatever’s work is either stolen, or fought over, or someone claims credit for a whole bunch of stuff they didn’t actually contribute nearly anything to, or make a whole big show of some streamlining effort that actually just cripples or eliminates the proverbial one dinky jenga block from the xkcd comic, and then all the blame for a whole bunch of other idiots’ plans, who never even consulted with the jenga block maintainer, well that guy or gal gets utterly blamed for all of it.
As well as of course all the NDAs and IP type bullshit where nothing even resembling what you did as a contractor or for another company can be used elsewhere, and become massively succesful, without a massive legal and financial threat.
… The actual devs, yes, did their work most likely without ‘lol lets fuck over these upstarts’ in mind.
That was in the mind of upper management and c suite though, guaranteed.
They don’t talk about that infront of the servants, I mean employees, I mean, who cares really, we’ll drive them nuts with crunch OT and then lay them off anyway, gaslighting them for the entire development cycle that that won’t happen.
…
Your instinct as a senior dev to reach out comes from a reasonable and good place.
But upper management and c suite is concerned with maximizing profit and business strategy, and in game dev, these folks have a long, stories history of routinely being as ruthless, cutthroat, duplicitous as possible.
It is warfare to them.
…
And I am not just pulling my credential check out of my ass here as some kind of gotcha style rhetoric, I also have worked in game dev, in software dev, in db admin and data analyst roles, for large corporations.
Though I do truly appreciate that you actually have the relevant credentials, and are talking from your own actually relevant experience, so I want to thank you for that, for actually having the conversation.
My experience has been almost entirely upper managers and VPs and the Board consistently doing the exact opposite of what actual developers suggest, request, or warn about, and then just slyly or sometimes quite brashly blame everyone else for causing the fuckups they were warned their plans would cause.
They think they are Gods and everyone else is a contemptible, digusting, unfortunately unavoidable part of doing business… and if a truly royal fuckup happens, they’ll turn on the people that built the corporate ladder they climbed without even a blink.
-
It’s ironic that you’re looking at this from the same angle that you accuse Bethesda of. The Skyblivion team didn’t start this “labor of love”, as you correctly put it, to earn money. Yet all you can think about is how much money you think they’re missing out on. It really shows what your values in life are.
… They call it a labor of love, without the stated goal of making money…
Because if their stated goal was to make money, Bethesda would sue them into poverty induced early graves.
It goes against the corpo nature to do something that doesn’t earn them money. Their hierarchy of needs has only one point: income. Even this serves them in some way, even if it’s not apparent.
Okay? Again, who are you serving by choosing this specific forum to shout that messaging? I know you aren’t OP, so consider that the royal “you”.
It’s just tiresome is all, and I’m on the “boo, capitalism” side of things. It’s like the folks who turn every thread tangentially related to Microsoft into a Linux advertisement. Or the involuntary ejaculation of a vegetarian when the subject of diet comes up. Like, yes, these folks are probably correct about the things they are saying; you’re never going to be wrong to consider the angle being worked by a corp. However, it’s infantilizing to suggest that people are unaware that a corporation wants their money. That’s a given, and without additional commentary, it’s a positively useless statement that only serves to make people tune out the messaging, even in contexts where it IS desirable to bring it up (such as when a company is doing shady shit in pursuit of your money). Releasing a mediocre graphical remaster of a title that people have nostalgia for hardly qualifies as “shady shit” in my book. Lazy, sure, but not shady.
They’re just trying to delay the release of Skyblivion even further by making sure the devs all end up spending the next couple of weeks playing the remaster instead of working on their own project. That way Bethesda can maximize the monetization period for their version and hopefully convince a couple of fence sitters to just give up the wait and drop some cash on the remaster.
Still wildly suspicious timing.
