There is literally no fucking such thing as talent.
Talent is just the excuse of the ignorant and stupid to downplay training and hard work.
Generative ai tho DOES make art more accessiable to people with physical disablities, people who already spend their time learning and training in other skill sets.
Such as poor coders being able to make simple art for their project. No artist would be hired reguardless and it can provide a reasonable and useful method of obtaining art.
The current glut of companies running ai, training them and stealing copyrighted work should all burn in hell. Go bankrupt and have their ceos sent to jail for enabling and profiting off theft.
But lets be angry at the right thing here. Generative ai is a tool, asshole people stealing is the problem.
Sorry the concept of “talent” really just sends me.
What a crock of shit. You clearly haven’t lived with talented people. I’ve had roommates that I got to observe their daily habits and while they did work and practice, much of their skill came from how their brains and muscles were wired. Talent is very real. To assume every accomplishment that out shines another is simply a product of greater training and effort is an excuse of the ignorant.
I’d also suspect there are things that may not be “learnable” – if you don’t have great spatial perception or colour vision, that might not really be a skill than can be practiced.
It doesn’t mean you can’t do art either. Art is not only “faithful representations of reality”. Heck, that is probably the most boring and useless definition of art one could think of.
Edit: nevermind, just read another comment equating art’s value to its financial success. Now, that is an even more boring definition of art.
Disabled people can make great art. They can also hire someone else to help them; people who work succeed more together than apart.
I also think that having someone make a nice image is not worth the sheer amount of electrical energy and water cooling needed to power the datacenters.
People have aptitudes. The idea that a you could put 100 people in a room with the best teacher, and they could all become excellent artists, is hopeful but naive. But yes, even with talent a person has to work hard and practice. The word “talent” implies that the person worked hard to develop the skill. I agree we shouldn’t downplay the amount of work that goes into specializing, but let’s not pretend that means there’s no such thing as talent. Some people have a knack for things that others don’t, I’ve seen this firsthand on so many occasions. These knacks are what can be turned into talents.
So let’s not downplay a person’s natural aptitude by saying “well you just worked super hard, anybody can do that.”
In my work place we hired an intern who was pivoting careers and wanted to learn a new skill. The company was doing well, so we kept her on so long as she was trying. We patiently worked with her for years, but the skill NEVER clicked. She came from a robust background, so she was clearly capable, but we eventually figured out that she didn’t have the talent for it. She eventually decided that career wasn’t for her and left for another company - and in her new position she picked up on the different and required skill super quick. Our brains are elastic, sure, but they’re also hardwired in all different ways.
The idea that a you could put 100 people in a room with the best teacher, and they could all become excellent artists, is hopeful but naive.
Put 100 people in a room with the best teacher, and the 1 student that likes the subject the most will be the best student.
There’s different levels of interests between the students. A student that is very invested in the subject is going to learn more than a student that wishes they were doing anything else. That’s what happens when something “clicks” - when a student goes above and beyond the taught material because they’re always thinking about it. “Talent” is indistinguishable from enthusiasm.
Sure, there are literal cognitive differences between people, but 99 times out of 100 “talent” is just passion imo
People who are “talented” might start out at a better point in a field than others but they’ll hit a wall where they have to actually put in work to go further, that comes all at once instead of in small steps.
I can’t visualize things in my head so generative ai can help me “see” my thoughts in a way i couldn’t otherwise. Are there artists with aphantasia? I’m sure, and kudos to them. I took several art classes and could never really do well unless i was trying to recreate someone else’s work.
But absolutely agree with your point. I would love for the future to have art licensed for genAI use so artists get their royalties and i can use it. I don’t like all the theft in current LLMs so don’t use them anymore
Ok so i do know there are some people with aphantasia who do art but didn’t want to get into a long rant about this but congratulations your comment has triggered me by sharing the first search result with no commentary (did you even read it?).
First off, yes, art comes in many forms. I use my artistic expression in my writing. But abstract art can still be visualized in advance by artists, something i literally cannot do. Can i still make art (abstract and otherwise), yes, but it takes longer than someone else who can visualize. Also telling me i can just do abstract art is like telling someone who can’t use their legs that they can still walk if they use some hands crunches and drag their legs along. Is it possible? Maybe! Is it something that will be enjoyable? Probably not. I don’t feel people would respond to a handicapped person this way but maybe they do. They do respond this way to me, all the time. Maybe they think they are helping, but it’s not helpful.
Anyway, the animator. So if you actually read the article it talks about the difference between seeing it describing things. I cannot see my wife in my head, but i have studied her face countless times over the decades. If i were to describe her face to you it would be a series of long lists about each feature of her face. This is what i would compare to someone’s job as domain knowledge. If you do something many times, you have experience with this. If i were an animator for a company then yeah i could have domain knowledge and get by doing that since i have prepared long lists of different characters, objects, or general setting characteristics for new things (it will still be harder than someone who can visualize since they don’t need to iterate as much).
Now if you ask me about something else though, the details i can recall are much less. If i want to draw a cthulu-esque monster combined with two humanoid legs then i could try to recall details about these things but my cthulu piece is just a blob, i don’t really know much besides describing tentacles. Of course i could look things up but then im just back to copying things.
But what if i just want to make my own original art? Well, i need to describe it in my head first. Describe it in great detail and then hope the words i have used to describe it match how i actually want it to appear for my writing.
And that’s the type of art i care about. And that’s the type of art genAI can help me visualize if i use it (again, i don’t anymore). But imagine that handicap person who can’t walk now getting some robotic assisted crutches. That’s what i imagine it felt like for me to visualize things with genAI. I could just feed it lists of details and it effortlessly showed me approximations of what my detail-lists are. I could “see” my thoughts for the first time. Could i do all of this myself without genAI? Yeah if i spent enough time on it. It just isn’t fun for me.
And what do you do for work or hobbies? Do you do anything that you’re dogshit at? Do you do something that you do have a physical or mental disadvantage in? Ive done hobbies to push myself in other areas of my life, but not this one. Like i said, it isn’t fun for me. And telling me to do other kinds of art isn’t helpful either.
And to be clear, I’m not using any of this as a justification to use genAI on unlicensed work. My original comment expressed my desire to have models with licensed work. Because i do want to just effortlessly “see” my thoughts like everyone else. That’s it.
My point is that anyone can do art. If you can make marks, you can make art. I would worry about leaning too much on the “imagination” of the computer, and I do not consider AI generated images art.
There is literally no fucking such thing as talent.
Talent is just the excuse of the ignorant and stupid to downplay training and hard work.
Generative ai tho DOES make art more accessiable to people with physical disablities, people who already spend their time learning and training in other skill sets.
Such as poor coders being able to make simple art for their project. No artist would be hired reguardless and it can provide a reasonable and useful method of obtaining art.
The current glut of companies running ai, training them and stealing copyrighted work should all burn in hell. Go bankrupt and have their ceos sent to jail for enabling and profiting off theft.
But lets be angry at the right thing here. Generative ai is a tool, asshole people stealing is the problem.
Sorry the concept of “talent” really just sends me.
I am one of those poor coders that need simple art for their project and i know a better solution than AI
https://itch.io/game-assets
Counterpoints:
This 2 year old
This 19 month old
This 5 year old
A 6 year old
Cringe news station, but 3 years old
And lastly, for now, Chloe Chua at 9 years old with decades level violin mastery (she can also play the piano).
What a crock of shit. You clearly haven’t lived with talented people. I’ve had roommates that I got to observe their daily habits and while they did work and practice, much of their skill came from how their brains and muscles were wired. Talent is very real. To assume every accomplishment that out shines another is simply a product of greater training and effort is an excuse of the ignorant.
I’d also suspect there are things that may not be “learnable” – if you don’t have great spatial perception or colour vision, that might not really be a skill than can be practiced.
It doesn’t mean you can’t do art either. Art is not only “faithful representations of reality”. Heck, that is probably the most boring and useless definition of art one could think of.
Edit: nevermind, just read another comment equating art’s value to its financial success. Now, that is an even more boring definition of art.
The most impressive art is when people learn the rules well enough to ignore them.
Where?
Disabled people can make great art. They can also hire someone else to help them; people who work succeed more together than apart.
I also think that having someone make a nice image is not worth the sheer amount of electrical energy and water cooling needed to power the datacenters.
People have aptitudes. The idea that a you could put 100 people in a room with the best teacher, and they could all become excellent artists, is hopeful but naive. But yes, even with talent a person has to work hard and practice. The word “talent” implies that the person worked hard to develop the skill. I agree we shouldn’t downplay the amount of work that goes into specializing, but let’s not pretend that means there’s no such thing as talent. Some people have a knack for things that others don’t, I’ve seen this firsthand on so many occasions. These knacks are what can be turned into talents.
So let’s not downplay a person’s natural aptitude by saying “well you just worked super hard, anybody can do that.”
In my work place we hired an intern who was pivoting careers and wanted to learn a new skill. The company was doing well, so we kept her on so long as she was trying. We patiently worked with her for years, but the skill NEVER clicked. She came from a robust background, so she was clearly capable, but we eventually figured out that she didn’t have the talent for it. She eventually decided that career wasn’t for her and left for another company - and in her new position she picked up on the different and required skill super quick. Our brains are elastic, sure, but they’re also hardwired in all different ways.
Put 100 people in a room with the best teacher, and the 1 student that likes the subject the most will be the best student.
There’s different levels of interests between the students. A student that is very invested in the subject is going to learn more than a student that wishes they were doing anything else. That’s what happens when something “clicks” - when a student goes above and beyond the taught material because they’re always thinking about it. “Talent” is indistinguishable from enthusiasm.
Sure, there are literal cognitive differences between people, but 99 times out of 100 “talent” is just passion imo
People who are “talented” might start out at a better point in a field than others but they’ll hit a wall where they have to actually put in work to go further, that comes all at once instead of in small steps.
I’m with you on all of your points actually (it’s photography all again), but you did post it in /fuck_ai 😁
I can’t visualize things in my head so generative ai can help me “see” my thoughts in a way i couldn’t otherwise. Are there artists with aphantasia? I’m sure, and kudos to them. I took several art classes and could never really do well unless i was trying to recreate someone else’s work.
But absolutely agree with your point. I would love for the future to have art licensed for genAI use so artists get their royalties and i can use it. I don’t like all the theft in current LLMs so don’t use them anymore
One of the animators behind The Little Mermaid had aphantasia.
There’s also experimenting with more abstract forms - playing with color and shape. Art doesn’t have to be a picture of something.
Ok so i do know there are some people with aphantasia who do art but didn’t want to get into a long rant about this but congratulations your comment has triggered me by sharing the first search result with no commentary (did you even read it?).
First off, yes, art comes in many forms. I use my artistic expression in my writing. But abstract art can still be visualized in advance by artists, something i literally cannot do. Can i still make art (abstract and otherwise), yes, but it takes longer than someone else who can visualize. Also telling me i can just do abstract art is like telling someone who can’t use their legs that they can still walk if they use some hands crunches and drag their legs along. Is it possible? Maybe! Is it something that will be enjoyable? Probably not. I don’t feel people would respond to a handicapped person this way but maybe they do. They do respond this way to me, all the time. Maybe they think they are helping, but it’s not helpful.
Anyway, the animator. So if you actually read the article it talks about the difference between seeing it describing things. I cannot see my wife in my head, but i have studied her face countless times over the decades. If i were to describe her face to you it would be a series of long lists about each feature of her face. This is what i would compare to someone’s job as domain knowledge. If you do something many times, you have experience with this. If i were an animator for a company then yeah i could have domain knowledge and get by doing that since i have prepared long lists of different characters, objects, or general setting characteristics for new things (it will still be harder than someone who can visualize since they don’t need to iterate as much).
Now if you ask me about something else though, the details i can recall are much less. If i want to draw a cthulu-esque monster combined with two humanoid legs then i could try to recall details about these things but my cthulu piece is just a blob, i don’t really know much besides describing tentacles. Of course i could look things up but then im just back to copying things.
But what if i just want to make my own original art? Well, i need to describe it in my head first. Describe it in great detail and then hope the words i have used to describe it match how i actually want it to appear for my writing.
And that’s the type of art i care about. And that’s the type of art genAI can help me visualize if i use it (again, i don’t anymore). But imagine that handicap person who can’t walk now getting some robotic assisted crutches. That’s what i imagine it felt like for me to visualize things with genAI. I could just feed it lists of details and it effortlessly showed me approximations of what my detail-lists are. I could “see” my thoughts for the first time. Could i do all of this myself without genAI? Yeah if i spent enough time on it. It just isn’t fun for me.
And what do you do for work or hobbies? Do you do anything that you’re dogshit at? Do you do something that you do have a physical or mental disadvantage in? Ive done hobbies to push myself in other areas of my life, but not this one. Like i said, it isn’t fun for me. And telling me to do other kinds of art isn’t helpful either.
And to be clear, I’m not using any of this as a justification to use genAI on unlicensed work. My original comment expressed my desire to have models with licensed work. Because i do want to just effortlessly “see” my thoughts like everyone else. That’s it.
I am sorry if the article offended you.
My point is that anyone can do art. If you can make marks, you can make art. I would worry about leaning too much on the “imagination” of the computer, and I do not consider AI generated images art.