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- cross-posted to:
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In the end, only the customer pays extras.
Trumpets cannot comprehend this
They will first go “I don’t buy those damn consoles and gamer PCs every few years”, then find out once their new iPhones will be much more expensive…
Everything will be more expensive, if it uses a modern CPU. Phones, tablets, computers of any type from any company (both Intel and AMD are fabbing consumer CPUs on TSMC, as is Apple and Qualcomm), TVs, set top boxes, everything.
Right now TSMC is basically the only fab anything consumer-facing is made on, which is not a great thing in general, but vice president trump just decided that anything electronic needs a hefty price hike.
And remember, once the price goes up, it rarely goes down. Even after the tariffs reverted in the future.
They seem to like cars a lot. Remember when there was a car shortage because chip manufacturing froze during Covid?
Issue with that, they would love to have “chipless” cars they can repair with a screwdriver and a wrench.
He emphasized that the proposed tariffs would leave companies with no choice but to invest in domestic production facilities to avoid high taxes.
No choice except the obvious: Pass the cost of the Tax into the customer because there’s no way they’re going to spend billions to stand up a US fab plant anytime soon.
More so when these plants take 10 years to build. They will pass along the cost and just wait him out.
No choice except the obvious: Pass the cost of the Tax into the customer because there’s no way they’re going to spend billions to stand up a US fab plant anytime soon.
TSMC is standing up fabs in the US, mostly because we’re bribing them to do so.
The problem is that it takes literal years to build high tech manufacturing and isn’t something you can yank out of your ass to satisfy some idiot politician.
By Taiwanese law, TSMC isn’t allowed to move cutting edge processes to its US plant. The overseas operations have to be at least one gen behind.
From a strategic point of view, it makes sense for the Taiwan government to do this. They don’t want the US to suck them dry then cut a deal with the mainland.
I mean, it’s economic blackmail: we won’t build the good shit anywhere else, so if you don’t protect us, you get nothing.
Effective, but only if you’re dealing with someone who is rational, and, well, have you seen the brain-worm oligarchs in charge of the US lately?
For Taiwan, it’s a matter of survival, plain and simple. They’re not going to give up their monopoly because without it they cease to exist. It does not matter how irrational the person they’re dealing with is, because for them this is life and death, literally. TSMC is the single biggest national security asset they have.
Also, because these investments are long-term when the tariffs are likely to only be short term.
That’s just how tariffs work. They’re not a weapon against enemy nations. They’re a tax on Americans.
And nobody is going to bring production back to this fascist slave pen of a country.
Yeah but what corporation is going to think of the obvious solution?
Oh man, Trump…I had this thing I wanted to give you…where did I put it…oh yeah…🖕
Is that Roman salute?
Looks like an American salute to me.
One finger victory salute
OP needs a second to make it American.
lol I’ve always heard it as the sailor salute
Awesome! Send them to Canada, we can build data centres and sell the cloud services back to Americans powered by the electricity that we expect to be tarriffed, and cooled by the water we won’t sell.
Or Mexico! We’re already on it. Sheinbaum is working to get a chip manufacturing plant up in Guadalajara. Exciting stuff, honestly.
Make the chips in Guadalajara, ship them out of Puerto Vallarta to Vancouver to power server farms in Surrey; cut the US out entirely.
Mexico isnt about to replace TSMCs capabilities.
I didn’t say that.
Hell, use the waste heat to power hot water heaters or something. It blows my mind that we don’t do more cloud computing in cold environments. The servers produce heat, the people need heat, solve one problem with another. Instead we seem to be putting them in the driest and hottest climates available.
Indeed. My Alienware doubles as a space heater in my north facing office.
So, US is finally getting EU hardware prices
Probably Aussie hardware prices at this rate.
LOL
Can the fat fuck die from a coronary already?
Look at Henry Kissinger. If left to nature, Trump will live to be 120.
I hate it that you’re so right about this.
Isn’t the 2A to bring down tyrant governments?
indeed, so please stop beating the 1a to death and use your 2a to do something
What is 2a?
2nd amendment
I think it will not solve the problem. Look, 70 million Americans voted for felon
What a goddamn dumb fuck
So where is the US going to get its chips from then tax TMSC makes over 90% of chips?
TSMC was supposed to open a plant in the US, but apparently that takes a bit of time to get running.
I thought the US FAB was also going to be a generation behind?
Correct. Taiwan considers it a matter of national security to never allow their best processes to be exported. That monopoly is why Taiwan still exists.
That was interesting but it didnt talk about the export ban. It was more like an overview of the Taiwanese economy and how the chip industry relates to it.
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China I get, but Taiwan ? It’s literally a US-proxy state
I’m sure that orange fuck will try to sell it to “beautiful” president Xi, or to clean it out to stop the conflict, or something like that, that bubbles up in his senile demented brain.
I mean Puerto Rico is literally part of the US and that doesn’t seem to matter for them…
Ah yes. Our sworn enemy: Taiwan.
It would be comical if it wasn’t so sad.
Trump had to tariff someone or else he was going to look stupid for never shutting up about tarrifs.
He’s going, or is, senil. The tariffs are just something that got into his head that are simple to understand.
he is going, or is, senile
How the hell we’ll be able to tell
Did you see the vid where he thinks Spain is the S in BRICS?!
🤡
He’s probably has had dementia for a while, that’s where his lean and dumptruck ass come from.
https://miro.medium.com/v2/resize:fit:974/1*6-MPRi55oBECO6mrZEQfAg.png
Trump is on china’s side. Make no mistake he like their way of doing things.
And in two weeks there will be a special executive order to free his Tech Bro oligarch buddies from these tarrifs so Meta and Elmo are not forced to pay a dollar extra.
Trump is a chinese puppet apparently
Russian revenge for the sanctions.
The dismantling of the US was Putins wet dream since forever, he would have done the same with or without the well deserved sanctions for invading Ukraine.
If TSMC doesn’t want to set up shop in the USA, are the USA going to be able to produce chips on par with what TSMC can fab?
they are building a plant in Arizona, but i doubt it’ll ever be as good as Taiwan can do, not just because Taiwan has the skills but if Taiwan doesn’t have this then what’s the point of protecting it? It’s sort of a way to say, if you want to to continue to access the best chips in the world you should protect us from China
Taiwan are very clear about this; they (correctly) consider their monopoly on high end chip manufacturing to be an urgent matter of national defence and it is of the highest priority to them to keep it solely within Taiwan. They will never allow their best processes to be exported.
TSMC have advanced chip fabrication factory in Arizona in the US.
“TSMC will produce 3nm chips in the U.S., and Taiwan has already given TSMC the go-signal to manufacture 2nm chips abroad.”
But it cannot produce the higher end chips. That was explicitly part of the agreement when they built the facility. They’re only willing to fab low end product outside of Taiwan.
I was being very specific when I said “their best processes.”
I wouldn’t say 5nm and 3nm are low end
Sure, “low end” wasn’t a perfectly scientifically accurate way to describe it. I apologize for my terrible lack of academic rigor.
The point is that they’re not going to let their highest end processes be replicated outside of Taiwan. Or, rather, the Taiwanese government is not going to let that happen, because fear of losing access to that technology is their one bargaining chip with the West. Without that, they cease to exist as a country. There just isn’t enough incentive for anyone to risk a war with China otherwise.
Totally agree that it’s a sound strategy to keep their latest and greatest on home soil. At the same time they are starting to implement tooling for important parts of clients designs like
Core chiplets for Ryzen
iPhone SOCs
OK. It is ahistorical and hyperbolic to say they may never do that. They also have their fabs i n Taiwan rigged to self destruct if they get invaded. They are setting up shop in a different country. As fab dies shrink they get harder to make, they are building expertise somewhere else in case.
The thing with that fab is it doesn’t do packaging, they ship the wafers abroad for that. I wonder if americans will end up paying tariffs on chips made in the USA.
It’s already fabbing chips
People downvoting you can’t do a quick search:
TSMC is absolutely up and running already in the US.
Yeah I know, talking a lot of blowhard talk. Chip die size was the arbitrary argument, but again, that just takes time. They are hedging their bet with a supposed ally with China being their big threat.
"TSMC will produce 3nm chips in the U.S., and Taiwan has already given TSMC the go-signal to manufacture 2nm chips abroad. "
I believe the plant is operational, as they have bragged about “great production tests”. What I haven’t heard of is any orders placed for that plant’s products.
The US could probably do it… With hundreds of billions of government incentives to rapidly stand up the entire supply chain… Which would still take at least a decade. The machines that TSMC uses are made by ASML and themselves have a global supply chain of over 500 separate companies and are backordered for several years due to their inherent value.
In short, no.
It will take them 20 years to catch up to the 5-7 years they are behind, even with all the money in the world.
As you say, it’s setting up the supply chain.
Intel has been trying to get itself into that position for years, with huge amounts of public money being pumped in, and it is struggling so badly the company lost patience and fired the CEO who had the best chance of getting this done. And, as others have said, it doesn’t look like TSMC is about to let its US fabs do the most advanced stuff even if they could.
So this move will just make the best technology less accessible to the USA and tech products more expensive for Americans, for the foreseeable future.
for the foreseeable future.
Or 4 years, whichever comes first.
From what I understand one of the things that is protecting Taiwan from China is their fabs. They will fight for their lives to make sure they are protected by this.
As someone with family over in Taiwan, I really want them to be okay. Things are getting depressing globally.
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It’s going to impact American consumers a hell of a lot more.
Came here to say that. Americans pay the tarrifs. He’s raising prices for American consumers.
Is America great yet?
Has it ever been?
There has been a lot of greatness in US, but the people fighting the good fights seem to be losing right now. Just slowly, a little year by year. Hopefully this a kick in the pants too fucking far and we wake the fuck up and see we have to actually do something about it.
Maybe if that happens, computer parts won’t get a huge markup here in Japan anymore in that … ah, who am I kidding; they’ll still gouge us.
Awesome. More availability for the rest of us.
You mean we finally can get a gpu?
Best I can do is a GPU box with a rock in it
